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The (bad) mixing/mastering of Rock Dust Light Star

 
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Cosmic_Tanja



Joined: 30 Dec 2010
Posts: 53
Location: Shanghai, London, Buenos Aires


PostPosted: Mon Jun 13, 2011 05:01    Reply with quote

The (bad) mixing/mastering of Rock Dust Light Star
Hello Jamirotalkers,
I've got something on my mind for a while now. It's been bothering me a lot and as usual I wonder if others feel the same.

I like all Jamiroquai albums and I really like the recordings and the mix which is very important for the sound. A good song can sound crappy with a bad mix. Emergency on planet earth sounds great for the time it was made and I wouldn't change a bit! I really like the mix of Return of the Space Cowboy, though I think it is not loud enough when I compare and listen to it on earphones right next to other songs. I notice that especially on Scam. I just wish the song was louder.

Of course most new songs are too loud, but Travelling without moving was not too loud. It sounds live AND good recorded/mixed/mastered.
Now with Rock Dust Light Star I really have a problem. I do not like the mix. I like the music and the songs, but most of the songs have a terrible mix.

Compare to Synchronized where you have good dynamics, loud snares, a very deep bass, kicks and so on. Still it's not so much part of the loudness war of the music industry. Dynamite was part of that and I wish it was not that extreme, but still the mix of Dynamite is better for me than RDLS.
The song RDLS sounds so flat. It should have more snare, more bass and the chorus should be louder and big. I can hear the band intended it to be huge! You can hear it live! But the record... when I listen to that song I keep the volume down and pull it up when the chorus comes up! That's how much I dislike the mix!!
I know it's probably intended to be a live-sound, but for an album recording of Jamiroquai it just fails me!

White Knuckle Ride sounds okish. Still think it could be better.
Smoke and Mirrors sounds good to me! Not all songs need to have extreme mixes...
AGITH has a terrible mix. Same as RDLS it's SOO flat. I first thought I like that, because it sounds different. But the song would sound much better with more dynamics in it!
Hurtin has more dynamics, but still I wanna hear Derrick's and Rob's part LOUD and HURTIN my ears, instead it sounds so monotonous and flat!
Blue Skies is okish I guess...
Lifeline and Two completely different things have the same tone. There are so many instruments and I love that, but they all get lost in that flatness!
Now she's a fast persuader in general sounds great, but what did they do with the placing of instruments? The sax solo sounds like it is somewhere in the back. Like they're hiding it, because they do not like the solo.
Goodbye to my dancer has this commercial sound, I'm not sure I like it. But hey - loudness war...(In case you do not not the term loudness war:
http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Loudness_war )
Never gonna Be another has a great mix, but it's also the song that sounds like it deserves that. (in a good way!)
Hey Floyd is not too loud! Finally! But same problem as all other songs - a bit too flat. Though it's the song with most dynamics and my favorit mix of the album.
Why do the songs sound so differenty mixed?
The reason I write this is that I feel so annoyed by the album mix, although I like the songs so much. And now I read that Paul mentioned the mixing of Smile was done without the record companys control. And you can hear it! The mix is much much better!!
Actually Hang it over and Angeline sound better too. Why??

And does anybody else feel bothered by the mix/mastering of RDLS?
Or am I the only one to hear that?

Tanja
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Cosmic_Tanja



Joined: 30 Dec 2010
Posts: 53
Location: Shanghai, London, Buenos Aires


PostPosted: Mon Jun 13, 2011 05:10    Reply with quote


Ok, I just found someone in Italian writing about my problem!
But nobody answered him.
Here i the translation:
http://translate.google.de/translate?js=n&prev=_t&hl=de&ie=UTF-8&layout=2&eotf=1&sl=it&tl=en&u=http%3A%2F%2Fwww.xelenio.com%2Fforum%2Fviewtopic.php%3Ff%3D34%26t%3D16384&act=url

he asks exactly what I am asking. so? anyone else noticed this?
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Cosmic_Tanja



Joined: 30 Dec 2010
Posts: 53
Location: Shanghai, London, Buenos Aires


PostPosted: Mon Jun 13, 2011 11:20    Reply with quote


Oh Snap! Now that I thought about it, I really need to be even more careful how to say things.
I know it's a lot of work to mix a complete album! I appreciate the work! But I think it was not as good as it could be. And this is my opinion. Maybe other people like it especially as it is.
Also the guy/guys mixing the album maybe did not have any influence on a bad mastering (which usually is just for making things louder nowadays). And maybe the people who did all this were under the influence of the record company who said "make it as loud as Lady Gaga!".

I hope nobody who worked on RDLS feels bothered by this thread. I just think the mixing of the songs do not fit as they are
Thanks
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kellte2



Joined: 17 Mar 2005
Posts: 110
Location: Washington, DC


PostPosted: Wed Jun 15, 2011 21:39    Reply with quote


The Smile mix is pretty substandard, as well. The file we received from the band is high-quality, 320 kbps bit rate. However, there are several places in the track where there is noticeable distortion (especially at the start). Not sure how that happens unless this track was never given a final "master" since it was ultimately left off RDLS.
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Poderfunk



Joined: 24 Oct 2009
Posts: 320
Location: Buin close to Santiago de Chile


PostPosted: Thu Jun 16, 2011 00:35    Reply with quote


kellte2 wrote:
The Smile mix is pretty substandard, as well. The file we received from the band is high-quality, 320 kbps bit rate. However, there are several places in the track where there is noticeable distortion (especially at the start). Not sure how that happens unless this track was never given a final "master" since it was ultimately left off RDLS.


Yeaa men you're right, at the beginnig sounds bad. I thought it was my mp3 player or my earphones.
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Cosmic_Tanja



Joined: 30 Dec 2010
Posts: 53
Location: Shanghai, London, Buenos Aires


PostPosted: Thu Jun 16, 2011 02:35    Reply with quote


Well I think Smile sounds ok to me.
It's not that I'd say it sounds like an extremely good mix...

Any of you noticed how damn loud Runaway is? It must be the loudest Jamiroquai song...
so what do you think of RDLS ?
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Andrew



Joined: 26 Oct 2004
Posts: 1015
Location: Australia


PostPosted: Thu Jun 23, 2011 14:30    Reply with quote


I'd prefer a wider dynamic range over loudness any day - Loudness is what EQ and the volume knob is for isn't it?!
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Sandriche
Officer & Jamily Coach


Joined: 07 Oct 2005
Posts: 5564
Location: Austraria


PostPosted: Sat Jun 25, 2011 22:42    Reply with quote


i think the mix and master of RDLS are fantastic...
and yes i had a close listen with different headphones /loudspeakers aswell.
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Dye
Correspondent & Expert


Joined: 16 Nov 2003
Posts: 5146
Location: Planet Home; Buenos Aires, Argentina


PostPosted: Sat Jun 25, 2011 22:46    Reply with quote


Yeah, I think RDLS sounds very good.
Dynamite is the one I have problems with.

And Synkronized is the one that sounds almost perfect. Canned Heat with headphones is a masterpiece in sound engineering.
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John Doggett



Joined: 22 Jan 2010
Posts: 545
Location: France


PostPosted: Sun Jun 26, 2011 09:23    Reply with quote


Dye wrote:
Yeah, I think RDLS sounds very good.
Dynamite is the one I have problems with.

And Synkronized is the one that sounds almost perfect. Canned Heat with headphones is a masterpiece in sound engineering.


100% agree my friend!
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__Janluka__



Joined: 11 Feb 2006
Posts: 953
Location: L' Aquila, Italy


PostPosted: Mon Jul 04, 2011 06:40    Reply with quote


..i really dislike the horrible fading in AGITH. How is it possible?.. a 4/4 beat at 116 bpm, pure bassline for mixin' and.. the beginning is perfect, just a loop in the first two quarters, but.. the ending?.. fading?.. ok, i'm talking as a deejay, and surely other ones have the same 'problem'.

How to solve it?.. looping the end is not perfect, the volume level is, yes, ok, but..

Just a little thing: the vinyl version of RDLS sounds more "bassly" than the cds (Original, Special Edition and priceless).. Wink

i hope in a remix.. Official remix.. Very Happy
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kellte2



Joined: 17 Mar 2005
Posts: 110
Location: Washington, DC


PostPosted: Tue Jul 05, 2011 05:06    Reply with quote


Dye wrote:
Yeah, I think RDLS sounds very good.
Dynamite is the one I have problems with.

And Synkronized is the one that sounds almost perfect. Canned Heat with headphones is a masterpiece in sound engineering.


I still haven't warmed up to Dynamite. I really want to, but just can't.
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HoneyBee



Joined: 21 Jul 2010
Posts: 673


PostPosted: Wed Jul 06, 2011 04:27    Reply with quote


Well it looked like Tanja was having an argument with herself for a bit. Laughing

I think somebody posted somewhere that RDLS is Low-fi, which should be a retro fit in the loudness war. I agree, I don't think louder is better.
But I think for the most part because it's "live", the traditional mixing/adding is simpler. I think it's pretty smooth, still.
And I feel the simpler production is the trend today.

Canned Heat is one of my favorites. But I also love the techno/disco Electric Mistress, which I think of as a club tune.
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Funk Fiction



Joined: 07 Nov 2010
Posts: 128
Location: Los Angeles, CA


PostPosted: Sat Jul 09, 2011 00:43    Reply with quote


It's very interesting this got brought up because I was thinking of starting a thread on it, but only in regards to 'Smile'. I haven't listened to RDLS enough to pay attention to the mixing... I still pay more attention to how much I like (or rather am indifferent to) most of the songs on the album.. for whatever reason it still hasn't grabbed me as much as every other album has (even Dynamite's a solid record!).

But yes, back to 'Smile'. Fantastic, amazing, lovely, beautiful tune. The mixing... what the f***! Especially the beginning, it CLIPS. The parts where the keyboards enter. The first 3 chords of the keyboard (rhodes) that are played actually distort a little. You can hear crackles. At first I thought it might be the medium I'm listening to it through (my headphones), then I tried others like my car stereo, my studio monitors (it doesn't show it as much on those but those speakers flatter the sound and hide errors a lot), my laptop speakers, etc... I find that in general, the mix's mid range is boosted too much and it terribly suffers from it.

It also has a very "compressed" sound. Not in a good or louder way either. It just sounds really dense and a bit muddy/murky. I never have had any problems with mixing/engineering on Jamiroquai's part. I always expect top notch quality from them... so it's odd to experience this.

It doesn't ruin the track, though.. it makes it a little weird but the song is still wonderful and a joy to listen to.

As for earlier albums... I agree, Synk is the best out of all the albums as far as mixing/engineering is concerned. Gotta give it up for Al Stone. It was his 3rd album with Jamiroquai, too... so naturally he was getting better and better. Why they got rid of him is COMPLETELY beyond me. But then again, so is getting rid of Stu, Dzire, Wallis, Katz (i think Katz left cuz he got tired of drama just like Van Gelder)... LOL but that's digressing!

The mix of EOPE and ROTSC have a VERY lo-fi and warm/fuzzy sound to them. Very suitable, too! Especially for the time (early 90s) and the vintage/raw/retro sound they had going on. ROTSC can be a bit TOO fuzzy sometimes and doesn't travel entirely well on all sound systems (even though it's arguably their greatest work, musically). TWM is personally my favorite mix, even though I think Synk is objectively better for it's more clear, crisp, punchy, and dynamic. But yes, TWM, it's the punchiest and loudest of the first 3, while still retaining that analog warmth and lo-fi character. I love how pumping and driven Stu and Derrick are on TWM.

This is a very interesting topic! I could talk about this stuff for hours, lol. But yeah, hopefully they maybe remaster 'Smile'? Maybe release it on iTunes, I don't know. Great song still! Cool
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HoneyBee



Joined: 21 Jul 2010
Posts: 673


PostPosted: Sat Jul 09, 2011 14:46    Reply with quote


Just my input.
I don't think "Smile" was finished in the mix process.
Not ready for release. Or rather, an official release.

But most of us are happy with the song.
For me, I think the lyrics are the weakest part for "Smile".
But that's where I focus. For me, first Voice, music, then lyrics.

And we all focus on something different.
And we really can't argue which album is better.
Because we are all looking for something different.
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