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Lydster
Joined: 25 Jul 2005
Posts: 335
Location: Out.
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 Posted: Wed May 23, 2007 11:46 |
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Well, I think hydrogen is not so good too, because you need huge amounts of energy to get the hydrogen out of the water. And that energy often comes from fossile fuels. And then again we have CO2 emmisions, which we actually tried to avoid. |
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DiscoStu
Joined: 14 Apr 2007
Posts: 363
Location: Buenos Aires, Argentina
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| Posted: Wed May 23, 2007 16:00 |
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| Lydster wrote: |
| Well, I think hydrogen is not so good too, because you need huge amounts of energy to get the hydrogen out of the water. And that energy often comes from fossile fuels. And then again we have CO2 emmisions, which we actually tried to avoid. |
Hmm... there HAS to be a workaround....
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mr.az
Joined: 01 Sep 2005
Posts: 2421
Location: rallying
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| Posted: Wed May 23, 2007 16:10 |
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| DiscoStu wrote: |
| Lydster wrote: |
| Well, I think hydrogen is not so good too, because you need huge amounts of energy to get the hydrogen out of the water. And that energy often comes from fossile fuels. And then again we have CO2 emmisions, which we actually tried to avoid. |
Hmm... there HAS to be a workaround.... |
to add, i see on tv-in a few car magazines-that the hydrogen needs alot of special equipment to be used as a fuel, is not easy to do...i know i see a gas car once, a french car i think but the website is dead, so i dont know if the company is still alive...
in other side, there's electric cars as the venturi fetish and other ones, so they work, again the trouble is the energy used to build the batterys...
so, we're far from a real clean energy for use in cars, all of them need production and the C02 again are damned...
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Lydster
Joined: 25 Jul 2005
Posts: 335
Location: Out.
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| Posted: Wed May 23, 2007 16:43 |
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What can I say? Maybe we should get back onto horses... |
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mr.az
Joined: 01 Sep 2005
Posts: 2421
Location: rallying
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| Posted: Wed May 23, 2007 20:14 |
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| Lydster wrote: |
| What can I say? Maybe we should get back onto horses... |
maybe
i know there's a car moved by propane, but i think i see another source...i hope this afternoon i can post the link here
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MissyM
Joined: 28 Feb 2007
Posts: 451
Location: Here--> there & everywhere!
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| Posted: Fri May 25, 2007 03:51 |
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| mr.az wrote: |
| Lydster wrote: |
| What can I say? Maybe we should get back onto horses... |
maybe
i know there's a car moved by propane, but i think i see another source...i hope this afternoon i can post the link here |
Yes lydster maybe that is the answer..lol.. but trying to convince people may be difficult
and MrAZ
That would be interesting try to find Azzi.. meanwhile I found this link about methane gas (yes methane!! or fart fuel) as rocket fuel.. lol... No this is by no means going to help solve our global warming problem but hey it is a fairly interesting little read.. This link is to a really good science site called Catalyst they also have program on the ABC here in Aus, very interesting show I just love it..
http://www.abc.net.au/science/news/stories/2007/1932305.htm
Now this next link, IT IS A MUST SEE!!! If you ever wanted to know the real deal about crude oil, how it came to being and where we on earth are headed, this is a -
REAL REALITY CHECK FOR YOU ALL..
I think it should be manditory viewing for everyone.. I watched the full edition last night on TV and it really blew me away and slightly upset me but at least I now know the deal.. I think people need to see this so as they can start making a difference.. If you have broadband check it out.. Please I urge you... Esp if you live in the northern hemisphere.. 
http://www.abc.net.au/science/crude/
When you are at the site make sure you also click on "The Irony of OIL".. it is the real clincher that will make you really GET IT!! all of the "in Depth" section is good and Sonia Shah is great too..
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mr.az
Joined: 01 Sep 2005
Posts: 2421
Location: rallying
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| Posted: Fri May 25, 2007 05:26 |
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i will try the first link
and by the way
i hope tomorrow i can post a good link as you do 
there's hope, now we must start to use it¡¡¡¡¡¡¡¡¡
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Lydster
Joined: 25 Jul 2005
Posts: 335
Location: Out.
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| Posted: Fri May 25, 2007 15:50 |
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I tried the second one, and I have to say: There might be a lot of crude oil, but one day it's gone. Used. Blown into the air or even eaten. And then the discussion about "oil for cars and energy or not" will be over because there's no more oil left. That's why I think it's simply OBVIOUS that we have to find other solutions now. You know, some people even say that in the future we'll use more oil for making energy! Sounds like a bad joke, doesn't it?!? I think we gotta do something NOW or one day we'll be like fish in a dry river... |
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deesh
Joined: 23 Feb 2002
Posts: 2717
Location: +001
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| Posted: Wed May 30, 2007 17:01 |
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Thought some of you would dig this...
http://tothesurface.org/
Tothesurface.org is a new website specializing in the uncovering of quality as well as controversial documentaries focusing on a range of topics from: Politics, Conspiracies, Current Events, The Environment, Nature and Culture that have lain for too long, beneath the outer crust.
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deesh
Joined: 23 Feb 2002
Posts: 2717
Location: +001
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| Posted: Wed May 30, 2007 19:39 |
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I'm posting this here for longtime Jamily member and my friend, Erica (EZBE).
She and her co-workers are participating in a walk on June 10, 2007 for HIV/AIDS. If anyone would like to donate, please visit her page.
I'm sure any amount will be helpful. Pass it on to anyone you know who might be close to the HIV/AIDS fight or someone with loads of money that they like to give away....
http://www.walkforlife.co.uk/mtstars
Crusaid is a leading UK charity dedicated to helping poor and marginalised people affected by HIV and AIDS. Providing support, awareness, education projects and hardship funds, for the last two decades Crusaid has worked to enable individuals and communities to regain their dignity and improve their quality of life.
Thanks, Deesha
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MissyM
Joined: 28 Feb 2007
Posts: 451
Location: Here--> there & everywhere!
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| Posted: Thu May 31, 2007 07:38 |
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| deesh wrote: |
Thought some of you would dig this...
http://tothesurface.org/
Tothesurface.org is a new website specializing in the uncovering of quality as well as controversial documentaries focusing on a range of topics from: Politics, Conspiracies, Current Events, The Environment, Nature and Culture that have lain for too long, beneath the outer crust. |
nice site deesh I have seen some of the ones on space already but it's got some other interesting things on it too.. .. thnx u.
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deesh
Joined: 23 Feb 2002
Posts: 2717
Location: +001
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| Posted: Tue Jun 26, 2007 04:00 |
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Seems pretty interesting..
http://www.charityfolks.com/
charity folks is an auction site that helps people raise money for social causes. brother Richard set up the AID DARFUR auction site with some help from Tony Bennett. Have something special to add? Email Richard. going once, going twice.
from www.ropeadope.com
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CosmicMouse
Jamirotalk mum
Joined: 10 Feb 2002
Posts: 4821
Location: Germany
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| Posted: Tue Jul 03, 2007 22:00 |
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A New Global Warming Strategy:
How Environmentalists are Overlooking Vegetarianism as the Most Effective Tool Against Climate Change in Our Lifetimes
by Noam Mohr
Summary
Global warming poses one of the most serious threats to the global environment ever faced in human history. Yet by focusing entirely on carbon dioxide emissions, major environmental organizations have failed to account for published data showing that other gases are the main culprits behind the global warming we see today. As a result, they are neglecting what might be the most effective strategy for reducing global warming in our lifetimes: advocating a vegetarian diet.
Global Warming and Carbon Dioxide
The environmental community rightly recognizes global warming as one of the gravest threats to the planet. Global temperatures are already higher than they’ve ever been in at least the past millennium, and the increase is accelerating even faster than scientists had predicted. The expected consequences include coastal flooding, increases in extreme weather, spreading disease, and mass extinctions.
Unfortunately, the environmental community has focused its efforts almost exclusively on abating carbon dioxide (CO2) emissions. Domestic legislative efforts concentrate on raising fuel economy standards, capping CO2 emissions from power plants, and investing in alternative energy sources. Recommendations to consumers also focus on CO2: buy fuel-efficient cars and appliances, and minimize their use. ,
This is a serious miscalculation. Data published by Dr. James Hansen and others show that CO2 emissions are not the main cause of observed atmospheric warming. Though this may sound like the work of global warming skeptics, it isn’t: Hansen is Director of NASA’s Goddard Institute for Space Studies who has been called “a grandfather of the global warming theory.” He is a longtime supporter of action against global warming, cited by Al Gore and often quoted by environmental organizations, who has argued against skeptics for subverting the scientific process. His results are generally accepted by global warming experts, including bigwigs like Dr. James McCarthy, co-chair of the International Panel on Climate Change’s Working Group II.
The focus solely on CO2 is fueled in part by misconceptions. It’s true that human activity produces vastly more CO2 than all other greenhouse gases put together. However, this does not mean it is responsible for most of the earth’s warming. Many other greenhouse gases trap heat far more powerfully than CO2, some of them tens of thousands of times more powerfully. When taking into account various gases’ global warming potential—defined as the amount of actual warming a gas will produce over the next one hundred years—it turns out that gases other than CO2 make up most of the global warming problem.
Even this overstates the effect of CO2, because the primary sources of these emissions—cars and power plants—also produce aerosols. Aerosols actually have a cooling effect on global temperatures, and the magnitude of this cooling approximately cancels out the warming effect of CO2. The surprising result is that sources of CO2 emissions are having roughly zero effect on global temperatures in the near-term!
This result is not widely known in the environmental community, due to a fear that polluting industries will use it to excuse their greenhouse gas emissions. For example, the Union of Concerned Scientists had the data reviewed by other climate experts, who affirmed Hansen’s conclusions. However, the organization also cited climate contrarians’ misuse of the data to argue against curbs in CO2. This contrarian spin cannot be justified.
While CO2 may have little influence in the near-term, reductions remains critical for containing climate change in the long run. Aerosols are short-lived, settling out of the air after a few months, while CO2 continues to heat the atmosphere for decades to centuries. Moreover, we cannot assume that aerosol emissions will keep pace with increases in CO2 emissions. If we fail start dealing with CO2 today, it will be too late down the road when the emissions catch up with us.
Nevertheless, the fact remains that sources of non-CO2 greenhouse gases are responsible for virtually all the global warming we’re seeing, and all the global warming we are going to see for the next fifty years. If we wish to curb global warming over the coming half century, we must look at strategies to address non-CO2 emissions. The strategy with the most impact is vegetarianism.
Methane and Vegetarianism
By far the most important non-CO2 greenhouse gas is methane, and the number one source of methane worldwide is animal agriculture.
Methane is responsible for nearly as much global warming as all other non-CO2 greenhouse gases put together. Methane is 21 times more powerful a greenhouse gas than CO2. While atmospheric concentrations of CO2 have risen by about 31% since pre-industrial times, methane concentrations have more than doubled. Whereas human sources of CO2 amount to just 3% of natural emissions, human sources produce one and a half times as much methane as all natural sources. In fact, the effect of our methane emissions may be compounded as methane-induced warming in turn stimulates microbial decay of organic matter in wetlands—the primary natural source of methane.
With methane emissions causing nearly half of the planet’s human-induced warming, methane reduction must be a priority. Methane is produced by a number of sources, including coal mining and landfills—but the number one source worldwide is animal agriculture. Animal agriculture produces more than 100 million tons of methane a year. And this source is on the rise: global meat consumption has increased fivefold in the past fifty years, and shows little sign of abating. About 85% of this methane is produced in the digestive processes of livestock, and while a single cow releases a relatively small amount of methane, the collective effect on the environment of the hundreds of millions of livestock animals worldwide is enormous. An additional 15% of animal agricultural methane emissions are released from the massive “lagoons” used to store untreated farm animal waste, and already a target of environmentalists’ for their role as the number one source of water pollution in the U.S.
The conclusion is simple: arguably the best way to reduce global warming in our lifetimes is to reduce or eliminate our consumption of animal products. Simply by going vegetarian (or, strictly speaking, vegan), , , we can eliminate one of the major sources of emissions of methane, the greenhouse gas responsible for almost half of the global warming impacting the planet today.
Advantages of Vegetarianism over CO2 Reduction
In addition to having the advantage of immediately reducing global warming, a shift away from methane-emitting food sources is much easier than cutting carbon dioxide.
First, there is no limit to reductions in this source of greenhouse gas that can be achieved through vegetarian diet. In principle, even 100% reduction could be achieved with little negative impact. In contrast, similar cuts in carbon dioxide are impossible without devastating effects on the economy. Even the most ambitious carbon dioxide reduction strategies fall short of cutting emissions by half.
Second, shifts in diet lower greenhouse gas emissions much more quickly than shifts away from the fossil fuel burning technologies that emit carbon dioxide. The turnover rate for most ruminant farm animals is one or two years, so that decreases in meat consumption would result in almost immediate drops in methane emissions. The turnover rate for cars and power plants, on the other hand, can be decades. Even if cheap, zero-emission fuel sources were available today, they would take many years to build and slowly replace the massive infrastructure our economy depends upon today.
Similarly, unlike carbon dioxide which can remain in the air for more than a century, methane cycles out of the atmosphere in just eight years, so that lower methane emissions quickly translate to cooling of the earth.
Third, efforts to cut carbon dioxide involve fighting powerful and wealthy business interests like the auto and oil industries. Environmental groups have been lobbying for years to make fuel-efficient SUVs available or phase out power plants that don’t meet modern environmental standards without success. At the same time, vegetarian foods are readily available, and cuts in agricultural methane emissions are achievable at every meal.
Also, polls show that concern about global warming is widespread, and environmental activists often feel helpless to do anything about it. Unless they happen to be buying a car or major appliance, most people wanting to make a difference are given little to do aside from writing their legislators and turning off their lights. Reducing or eliminating meat consumption is something concerned citizens can do every day to help the planet.
Finally, it is worth noting that reductions in this source of greenhouse gas have many beneficial side effects for the environment. Less methane results in less tropospheric ozone, a pollutant damaging to human health and agriculture. Moreover, the same factory farms responsible for these methane emissions also use up most of the country’s water supply, and denude most of its wilderness for rangeland and growing feed. Creating rangeland to feed western nations’ growing appetite for meat has been a major source of deforestation and desertification in third world countries. Factory farm waste lagoons are a leading source of water pollution in the U.S. Indeed, because of animal agriculture’s high demand for fossil fuels, the average American diet is far more CO2-polluting than a plant-based one.
Recommendations
Organizations should consider making advocating vegetarianism a major part of their global warming campaigns. At a minimum, environmental advocates should mention vegetarianism in any information about actions individuals can take to address global warming.
Government policy should encourage vegetarian diets. Possible mechanisms include an environmental tax on meat similar to one already recommended on gasoline, a shift in farm subsidies to encourage plant agriculture over animal agriculture, or an increased emphasis on vegetarian foods in government-run programs like the school lunch program or food stamps.
source: http://www.earthsave.org/globalwarming.htm
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CosmicMouse
Jamirotalk mum
Joined: 10 Feb 2002
Posts: 4821
Location: Germany
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| Posted: Wed Jul 04, 2007 09:26 |
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Other articles about the same issue:
On July 7, artists such as Fall Out Boy, The Beastie Boys, Ludacris, and the Red Hot Chili Peppers will join forces to help in the fight against global warming. These are just a few of the many artists who will be playing at one of the nine Live Earth concerts that are being held to draw attention to the environmental crisis that threatens our planet.
All the Live Earth performers and organizers deserve praise for drawing much needed attention to the issue, but there is still more that can be done. Each one of us can help curtail global warming in a major way simply by going vegetarian.
Did You Know?
 A 2006 U.N. report concluded that raising animals for food generates more greenhouse gases than all the cars, trucks, planes, and ships in the world combined.
Producing one calorie of animal protein requires more than 10 times as much fossil fuel input—releasing more than 10 times the amount of greenhouse gasses—than it takes to produce one calorie of plant protein.
Being vegetarian is more effective in the fight against global warming than trading in your “regular” car for a Toyota Prius.
Read more about how going vegetarian is the best way to fight global warming.
http://www.goveg.com/environment-globalwarming.asp
The organizers of the Live Earth concerts list "green your diet" as one of the solutions to the environmental crisis, but we want people to know that it can be the solution. Several of the artists playing at the Live Earth concerts (see the list on the right for a few of the vegetarian performers) must have done their homework because they are already leaving meat off their plates in favor of a vegetarian diet.
AFI, Bloc Party, Fall Out Boy, John Butler Trio, Keane, Missy Higgins, Razorlight
source: http://www.peta-online.org/feat-globalwarming.asp
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CosmicMouse
Jamirotalk mum
Joined: 10 Feb 2002
Posts: 4821
Location: Germany
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| Posted: Wed Jul 04, 2007 09:32 |
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Meat and the Environment
Would you ever open your refrigerator, pull out 16 plates of pasta and toss them in the trash, and then eat just one plate of food? How about leveling 55 square feet of rain forest for a single meal or dumping 2,500 gallons of water down the drain? Of course you wouldn't. But if you're eating chicken, fish, turkey, pork, or beef, that's what you're doing—wasting resources and destroying our environment.
Animals raised for food expend the vast majority of the calories that they are fed simply existing, just as we do. We feed more than 70 percent of the grains and cereals we grow to farmed animals, and almost all of those calories go into simply keeping the animals alive, not making them grow. Only a small fraction of the calories consumed by farmed animals are actually converted into the meat that people eat.
A major 2006 report by the United Nations summarized the devastation caused by the meat industry. Raising animals for food, the report said, is “one of the top two or three most significant contributors to the most serious environmental problems, at every scale from local to global. The findings of this report suggest that it should be a major policy focus when dealing with problems of land degradation, climate change and air pollution, water shortage and water pollution and loss of biodiversity. Livestock’s contribution to environmental problems is on a massive scale ….”
Growing all the crops to feed farmed animals requires massive amounts of water and land—in fact, nearly half of the water and 80 percent of the agricultural land in the United States are used to raise animals for food. Our taste for meat is also taking a toll on our supply of fuel and other nonrenewable resources—about one-third of the raw materials used in America each year is consumed by the farmed animal industry.
Farmed animals produce about 130 times as much excrement as the entire human population of the United States, and since factory farms don't have sewage treatment systems as our cities and towns do, this concentrated slop ends up polluting our water, destroying our topsoil, and contaminating our air. And meat-eaters are responsible for the production of 100 percent of this waste—about 86,000 pounds per second! Give up animal products, and you'll be responsible for none of it.
Many leading environmental organizations, including the National Audubon Society, the WorldWatch Institute, the Sierra Club, and the Union of Concerned Scientists, have recognized that raising animals for food damages the environment more than just about anything else that we do. Whether it's the overuse of resources, unchecked water or air pollution, or soil erosion, raising animals for food is wreaking havoc on the Earth. The most important step you can take to save the planet is to go vegetarian.
Read more!
source: http://www.goveg.com/environment.asp
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