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Butterfly in June
Joined: 21 May 2002
Posts: 972
Location: Germany
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 Posted: Wed Jul 04, 2007 11:55 |
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Very interesting Meike! I often thought about this subject in the last years and I reduced my meat consume enormous. I think one important thing is not to eat any meat products from fast food or in "convenient food" like burger or pizza.
If I eat meat - which is only once a week - I only eat that what I buy at the local butcher. Then I know that the cattle lived in the neighbour village and wasn't transported through Europe for a week or so. |
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deesh
Joined: 23 Feb 2002
Posts: 2717
Location: +001
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| Posted: Fri Jul 06, 2007 13:41 |
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That is indeed interesting because until I got the book from you Meike, I never realized the connection between our dietary consumption and the Earth. It is true that that is being ignored by scientists, doctors, etc...because this is where I first heard it.
There needs to be a better campaign on behalf of that really. Like I wonder if there will be a tent or people informing the public of this at Live Earth and such.
I think that going vegetarian is a fear for most because like with me, I feel like my first step was giving up red meat and then I was moving on to chicken and turkey, but then I'm like 'what's left to eat'...wait, I'll go put that in the book topic 
I want to print this out and really read it. Just skimmed. Thanks Meike.
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deesh
Joined: 23 Feb 2002
Posts: 2717
Location: +001
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| Posted: Thu Aug 16, 2007 19:00 |
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Quote from movie: "What does it mean to be in the face of a world that seems to be going in the wrong direction and say NO - we're going to switch course?"
Summary: THE SHIFT movie raises awareness to the story of our roles in an evolutionary shift in our collective consciousness. As it chronicles the faces, the stories and leaders assisting in this social transformation, the film reveals its emergence & meaning.
Get involved! www.shiftmovie.com
Watch trailer here or link above: http://youtube.com/watch?v=OOzG0z1K3Do
"We have the capacity to feed everybody on the planet. We have the capacity to ensure that everybody has clean water. We have the capacity to ensure that everybody has affordable health care. We have the capacity to ensure that every child gets the inoculations that they ought to have as children. We can prevent many of the diseases to which our children in the poorer parts of the world succumb. For goodness' sake." - Archbishop of South Africa, Desmond Tutu
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CosmicMouse
Jamirotalk mum
Joined: 10 Feb 2002
Posts: 4821
Location: Germany
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| Posted: Sun Aug 19, 2007 21:06 |
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Are you brave enough to face the truth?
For everyone who cares... please, please watch this documentation!!!
Don't close your eyes and realize! And make the connection!
Stop supporting those things you will learn in this movie, because most of us do support this suffering - I don't want to believe that so many people on earth don't care and don't empathise at all. Everyone on earth should see this movie before making decisions.... 
 EARTHLINGS
You can watch it online for free, in the original american version, with different subtitles (English - Bulgarian - Deutsch - Español - Estonian - Français - Greek - Português).. and if you want to support the film-makers you can buy the dvd as well.
The narrator is Joaquin Phoenix ("Gladiator"), soundtrack from Moby.
Take your time, it's 1h35min... but watch it compeltely! It's worth it! And so important!!
Mouse
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CosmicMouse
Jamirotalk mum
Joined: 10 Feb 2002
Posts: 4821
Location: Germany
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| Posted: Mon Aug 20, 2007 06:57 |
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Oh, and if you have seen the film, I'd like to have your feedback. Send me a PM if you don't want to write here!
Mouse
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I'm walking on air and every cloud is Cloud 9. ~ |
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deesh
Joined: 23 Feb 2002
Posts: 2717
Location: +001
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| Posted: Mon Aug 20, 2007 10:29 |
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We need an emoticon for throwing up.
I'd like to thank you for this suggestion Mouse, but 26 minutes into this, I almost got sick and it was a bit hard to go back to sleep.
I will watch the rest later, as I think it is important to see and I've seen worse on humans, so I can stomach this. And, I think that might be a turn off for people. They might turn the movie off halfway into the first section and not watch the rest. So the shock value and images may just work against the purpose of the movie (getting the information out) if that makes sense.
I think people should be warned how incredibly disgusting it is to watch, and I understand what the film is trying to do with showing these acts and horrible crimes, so I do get it.
But still...anyone that is going to watch - if you have a weak stomach, be warned. It honestly makes me not want to eat at all...and that is even vegetables or anything not animal related. That's how gross this movie is so far to me. From the description I thought this was going to be something that I could even show my students in nutrition month, but I can't with how graphic it is. I know that the parents wouldn't agree to me showing this with images.
I don't think people I know would make it past the first ten minutes of this. Partly because of the graphics, but also because of the terminology used in the beginning. The average person struggling here to feed their family and such, which is the case with most my clients, will be lost when the narrarator starts saying things about speciecism and all that.
Again, the shock value and images are effective and need to be seen, but like I said - people may turn this off because of that and not want to watch it at all.
I think the film is necessary, but I also think this is catered to people already interested in the topic. I think for an introduction to changing a lifestyle as this suggests, a more basic, simple and communicative movie is necessary. One that makes people want to continue watching.
I also can't help but think if the portion about the FOOD is catered to the agenda of the movie or are those practices universal?
I only got to the end of PETS, and am in the FOOD portion, but I like the suggestions that the narrator gave at the end of the PET section. So it isn't just telling you the information and then leaving you to not know what to do. I hope the other sections end like this.
This movie is very different for me to watch as I am more on the human side of suffering, than the animal side of suffering. More meaning more educated and interested in the human side of suffering, although I am very sympathetic to the suffering of other species.
Off to watch some more before work. But these are my thoughts so far. Thanks Mouse!
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CosmicMouse
Jamirotalk mum
Joined: 10 Feb 2002
Posts: 4821
Location: Germany
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| Posted: Mon Aug 20, 2007 12:46 |
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Thanks for your opinion, deesh!
I know that the pictures are horrible - and I myself had problems to watch it - had to close my eyes several times and just listen to the narrator. But I think this is no reason to NOT watch it. The fact that these scenes are no exceptions but the standard is even more frightening. Nearly all of us are supporting this indirectly - no matter how passive our role is in all this, we are envolved as long as we close our eyes and consume those products full of cruelty.
I know that most people will say: "I cannot watch this, I cannot handle this."
That would be ok if you wouldn't support these things, you know what I mean? So I think everyone who is envolved in this should know what exactly is happening. Otherwise we cannot really make decisions about what we consume and what not.
Mouse
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I'm walking on air and every cloud is Cloud 9. ~ |
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deesh
Joined: 23 Feb 2002
Posts: 2717
Location: +001
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| Posted: Mon Aug 20, 2007 13:44 |
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I see what you mean Mouse.
I just think that many people can't process, stomach or even observe such graphics, so they won't bother to watch it the whole way through.
I'm speaking of the average person, not those that are interested in the subject.
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Deja
Joined: 05 Jun 2006
Posts: 650
Location: Turin, Italy
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| Posted: Mon Aug 20, 2007 14:09 |
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I'm interested into the subject but me too, I had to gave up and I'm sorry 'cause I know that esactly 'cause they are painfull they have to be seen...but when they were trying to put ( dunno how it end) the dog into the rubbish destroing machine it was too much.
My bf wanted me to stop a lot before 'cause I was crying but I did my best...even if was not enought to see it all.
A few things, first of all I did not know of puppy mills...and all my anger goes to those b****rds who run thoose thinks.
A few things here are different, I've being working in a kennel for 2 years, taking all the licences so I know what I say, first of all if there is no room here animals are not killed (NO WAY!) but the city pay some private pensions and put them in there, secondly dogkeepers cannot bring pets into kennels..is not:" sorry I'm bored you take it now" ( NO WAY AGAIN), then when we give a pet away we check for years even with surprse inspections.
This doen't mean that the situation in Italy is great, we still have lager kennels, people who breed dog to let them fight and specially in the sputh many losten dogs ( around in the street) plus other things we're not proud of!
anyway thanks Meike, you all know this is MY subject so when I can effort the view I do my best to get informed.
Vere
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Cosmic Girl
Joined: 15 Sep 2003
Posts: 2157
Location: Zürich, Switzerland
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| Posted: Mon Aug 20, 2007 14:53 |
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What a cruel and sad world I couldnt watch any longer. I feel sorry that I am a humanbeing. I teach my son that he has to have respect from the nature plants animals and he has also to respect the old people too. Thank you Meike for puting up this video but I cant watch it. It is too hard.The reality is too hard it is way easier to look away. I feel so sad right now |
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CosmicBear
Officer - not married to CosmicMouse
Joined: 10 Feb 2002
Posts: 1063
Location: London, UK
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| Posted: Mon Aug 20, 2007 18:26 |
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Unfortunately I have to agree with Deesha about the movie. I watched the first 25 minutes and I couldn't take it anymore. I do support the message and the thinking behind it, but I can't agree with the presentation of the movie.
It's a bit like a shock treatment right from the start and it only gets worse
I am afraid that it actually works against the message. people will say that it's only shocking and will probably say it's single-minded and too provocative.
don't get me wrong, i do think that being provocative is good, but over the top might actually work against it.
having said that - i just ordered the DVD... i probably won't watch it (in one go) but at least i get to support the idea behind it. |
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funkmaster
Site Admin
Joined: 10 Feb 2002
Posts: 118
Location: Hannover/Germany
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| Posted: Mon Aug 20, 2007 22:39 |
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Hi there,
I, too, have seen only excerpts from the film to date. Really don't know when or if at all I will see the whole movie. Meike has seen it completely. When I yesterday saw her sitting in front of her computer, crying and shaking her head is disbelief, I asked her:
"Honey, why are you watching it? So have seen many of such films and the point is always the same: there is much cruelty and complete lack of pitifulness out there in this meet and dairy industry. And that's, why we decided to not be part of it anymore. So, why are you doing this to yourself?"
And she answered that she had so see the whole film in order to know, what she is linking to. She can't give it to others without knowing herself, what's in there. 
| deesh wrote: |
| ... and I understand what the film is trying to do with showing these acts and horrible crimes, so I do get it. |
Deesh, wanna know what I find remarkable? The suffering of our fellow creatures isn't a crime at all! It's legal (or at least covered or not pusued by the local law enforcement authorities) and it's happening every day. The only way to make things better is: a) Raise awareness for the situation. b) Provide alternatives and solutions.
| deesh wrote: |
| ... Again, the shock value and images are effective and need to be seen, but like I said - people may turn this off because of that and not want to watch it at all. |
That's right. But then it's their choice, if they turn their heads. The film is like the pill in MATRIX. "Do you choose the red or the blue pill? Do you choose the dream or the truth?". I for one always want to learn and choose the truth. But of course I know people who decide to remain a (consuming) part of this bloody "game" - and we still call them friends.
We won't try to fanatically persuade anybody - we (or you, if you link to it) just provide the information to base decisions on.
Love and peace to all of you!
Miran |
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deesh
Joined: 23 Feb 2002
Posts: 2717
Location: +001
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| Posted: Mon Aug 20, 2007 22:56 |
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Hi Miran and see you in a few weeks  -
I am rushing, but crimes against animals are indeed punishable here by law. Probably not the extent they should be and of course the sacrificing of animals for food isn't, but I know in the first part with the PETS, they were showing things that I often see on a TV show on the animal planet channel here. People get arrested for abandoment or mistreatment of their domestic pets.
A good example of this is professional football player Michael Vick. Our version of football  . He was on top of his game, one of the best players in the league, full of money and talent and very popular, and then it came out in the news that he was part of a dog fighting ring and I think I also heard that he participated in killing some after they were no good. He pleaded guilty today and is going to do jail time. Here's the link: http://www.washingtonpost.com/wp-dyn/content/article/2007/07/17/AR2007071701393.html
Disgusting!
There was also a chicken fighting ring here a bit ago where people trained their chickens to fight and they are all in jail.
It's all sad and I want to make it through this movie..it'll just take me a few days.
Because of the book Meike gave me, I have started to change my eating habits and have been red meat free since May 11th, learned how to cook more vegetable dishes and shop at the organic store..baby steps, so I agree about the information - just think the delivery in this movie is a bit extreme for the average person.
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funkmaster
Site Admin
Joined: 10 Feb 2002
Posts: 118
Location: Hannover/Germany
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| Posted: Mon Aug 20, 2007 23:19 |
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| deesh wrote: |
| Hi Miran and see you in a few weeks - |
Yeah - great! Hope, you'll enjoy it!
| deesh wrote: |
| People get arrested for abandoment or mistreatment of their domestic pets. |
Yes, that's what I don't really undestand: why are we distinguishing between pets (dogs, cats, etc.) and "food animals" (pigs, cows, chicken, etc.) - even in jurisdiction?
| deesh wrote: |
| Because of the book Meike gave me, I have started to change my eating habits and have been red meat free since May 11th, learned how to cook more vegetable dishes and shop at the organic store..baby steps, so I agree about the information - just think the delivery in this movie is a bit extreme for the average person. |
Absolutely great - I'm proud of you!!
And yes - I agree: it's extreme and intense. But, forget the "average person" - there isn't such a thing. We are all individuals. Some of us will turn it off an never loose any further thought to it. Others will be shocked and consider the film to be really eye opening. You can't please (I mean reach) them all by one and the same means.
Love,
Miran |
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deesh
Joined: 23 Feb 2002
Posts: 2717
Location: +001
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| Posted: Tue Aug 21, 2007 01:52 |
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I think the only thing I can think of about distinction is habit. I will always probably be guilty of this because I kill bugs and I can't see myself going completely vegan anytime soon.
I know of few organizations that take these messages to the inner city and the farmlands of developing countries. There is only one here that teaches kids that come from poor families to grow vegetables and such. Just one...Activists or those educated on this level like you and Meike don't come and talk to my students or their parents about specicism and all that. Maybe they have that in Germany, but they don't have programs like that in your average poor black ghetto - where meat and eating is a way of life, it is how we come together and share good times - over food. I know with my family, I'll be making a veggie dish at Thanksgiving instead of my traditional meat lasagna..so it starts with just one, I guess.
It would be great to see more people go into some neighborhoods and teach single mothers, poor single mothers about such things, because that is where the message is really needed (as well as everywhere else). Especially with the rising rate of child diseases and child obesity.
Of course everyone needs to know this info, but I'm all about if you educate a woman, you educate a family.
I kind of went off track, but I hope that makes sense. I am all for the message in the movie by the way and agree with what you all say.
I applaud Meike for putting this information on Jamirotalk because teaching the opposite of what people have been taught all their lives is a hard, hard thing to tackle especially when no one else is showing them alternatives to survive in a manner they can financially, effectively afford.
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