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Deja
Joined: 05 Jun 2006
Posts: 650
Location: Turin, Italy
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 Posted: Mon Sep 27, 2010 13:56 |
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mmm well for sure is not nice to receive bad critics but we all do in every little piece of life, is like when u organise a dinner and cook your best roast, there will always be someone who found it too salty, too this and less that or that is vegeterian ( meike  ).
For me is part of the package, they surely don't like it, but being famous, doing the work they do is clearly a way to be under people's eyes and people have opinions, all good even when they don't like something, at the end of the day is just taste.
I saw someone writed "stop criticising or jay will stop making music" OH CAMON, he knows the game well enought, he knows there are nostalgic fans, fans that love some kind of songs and fans that don't and I would never think that comments would effect him so much, surely to see that people don't like your work is not nice but for everyone saying he does not like there is one saying he does, so...not such a big deal for me.
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CosmicMouse
Jamirotalk mum
Joined: 10 Feb 2002
Posts: 4821
Location: Germany
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| Posted: Mon Sep 27, 2010 14:06 |
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With "negative critics" I really meant the disrespectful messages, mainly over at funkin.
(I am sorry if I don't express myself propperly, I have only 3 hours sleep at night and not even in a row, because my baby is not sleeping - getting teeth)
Of course critic is good and essential and welcome! This was just about disrespectful comments like: "Jay should get rid of Rob Harris, because it is his bad influence on the music" and a few more like that. |
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Cosmic Noe
Joined: 03 Nov 2007
Posts: 101
Location: Buenos Aires, Argentina
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| Posted: Mon Sep 27, 2010 14:18 |
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| CosmicMouse wrote: |
With "negative critics" I really meant the disrespectful messages, mainly over at funkin.
(I am sorry if I don't express myself propperly, I have only 3 hours sleep at night and not even in a row, because my baby is not sleeping - getting teeth)
Of course critic is good and essential and welcome! This was just about disrespectful comments like: "Jay should get rid of Rob Harris, because it is his bad influence on the music" and a few more like that. |
I see what you meant, and that´s disrespectful. Even when we don´t like a member (it happened to me once  ) it doesn´t mean we have the right to openly ask the band to get rid off him. There are some boundaries...
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CosmicMouse
Jamirotalk mum
Joined: 10 Feb 2002
Posts: 4821
Location: Germany
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| Posted: Mon Sep 27, 2010 14:41 |
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| iranterres wrote: |
Well I agree with no doubt. I know as a fan you also expected something 'else' right?  |
Somehow... yes... or no, not really, because my wishes were different from my expectations. All the little hints we collected in the last years about how the album might be didn't let me paint a complete picture in my head.
I want to point out that Jay (as far as I remember) has never clearly said he's gonna make a retro album like EOPE. All comments mentioned the new direction being DIFFERENT.
Here is a quote from Jay in 2009:
"This is going to be a fresh start for the band, with a slightly different sound. Now we are going back to the older style, with a lot of brass in it ... not necessarily retro. It's difficult to change your style. Besides, I think the style comes from the voice. But this is certainly something we are looking forward to....It's difficult because you do what you want to do but you also have a huge fan base who likes the first album, in which there is more of an organic, live feel. And there are also people who like the fourth and fifth albums, which are more electronic and programmed."
So, you see... not necessarily retro, but back to live recording.
That's what obviously happend!
Then: a lot of brass!! Until now this didn't happen. But maybe on some of the other songs we still don't know?
In Ahaus, backstage, when we were listening to 3 demos - it was clear to me: very different!! But cool somehow. Also it was pure, rough demos, some without voice, so you couldn't tell what it would sound like in the end.
What really got me hooked was Jay's enthusiasm!!!! That was phenomenal!!!
Months later at the Audi Q5 promotion gig I was talking to Matt and Paul (i think?) and they also said: it will be very different, the fans won't expect this, but they were proud of it and said they really enjoyed making the album.
So, I really don't have any expectations, besides that it will be different.
I am still hoping for some brass on the other tracks. We will see.
| Quote: |
But there's only one thing i'd like to point out for you is about that "live thing or feel" they described, so far i haven't seen it, all i listened were crafted tracks with a weird sound, there's too much electronic on WKR, al tracks are kinda overproduced. I want to see the other ones though, because WKR live is way way much better.
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Hm, I do think it sounds way more organic than the previous albums! Real instruments, recorded together, real drums!
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| What do you think if they rehearse those pieces with brass? Do you think it would sound cool? |
Hm... yeah, why not? Maybe they'll add some brass live?
Let's see what the other tracks will bring. I personally would love to have back the flute in one track... That would be mindblowing for me. But I don't expect this to happen.
Meike |
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Deja
Joined: 05 Jun 2006
Posts: 650
Location: Turin, Italy
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| Posted: Mon Sep 27, 2010 15:19 |
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| CosmicMouse wrote: |
With "negative critics" I really meant the disrespectful messages, mainly over at funkin.
(I am sorry if I don't express myself propperly, I have only 3 hours sleep at night and not even in a row, because my baby is not sleeping - getting teeth)
Of course critic is good and essential and welcome! This was just about disrespectful comments like: "Jay should get rid of Rob Harris, because it is his bad influence on the music" and a few more like that. |
Ah oki got it! yes that's something else, that's just being nasty!! is like with football...everyone is the best coach sitting home with a bier in one hand!!
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Jay_F
Joined: 21 Mar 2008
Posts: 682
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| Posted: Mon Sep 27, 2010 16:08 |
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yea, all i can say, Rob is the man  i love the vibe he does together with the band!!!
and agree Meike, that comment was the most shocking one i've read really.. he doesn't deserve this at all, he's a master at guitar, fab musician, to me he fits perfectly in JMQ
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Trolll
Joined: 27 May 2002
Posts: 335
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| Posted: Tue Sep 28, 2010 10:31 |
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I would tend to think that one can draw a parallel between Music and Love relationships (with less drama involved!).
Pretty much everyone on this forum is somehow “in love” with Jamiroquai. And, as in all love relationships, it has its ups and downs, its breakups, its “let’s get back together”, its climaxes and its moments of doubts.
You fall in love with a girl (can be replaced by guy or hamster, whatever ). She’s the one you’d been waiting for, she gives your life a new meaning and you can’t imagine how you could manage without her beforehand. Life’s like a giant honeymoon. You understand her and you feel like she understands you perfectly… “Looking together in one direction”.
Then time goes by and the relationship looses a bit of its magic and glitter. Habits are coming in and the daily routine goes on. There’s hardly any magic watching TV next to her on the couch. But it’s still love! Totally! She’s the one, no doubts about it, and life still feels good!
Now it’s springtime. Your life goes on as usual, your girlfriend’s little habits (that you thought were cute) sometimes get on your nerves, but you sure still enjoy life with her. You don’t imagine your life without her. Yet, you cannot help but notice that “that girl over there looks nice” and that “is it just me or was she looking rather insistently?”. God, it’s springtime! Hormones and stuff! That’s all bloody natural!
And, finally, one day, you wake up to find out that you’ve had enough of that life, that you’ve both been “growing apart” for a while now and that, without really noticing, you have become roommates, not a couple. You don’t have the same ideals, you don’t really share the same opinions anymore… and that’s where the screams begin: “You’re not the girl I fell in love with”, “You used to be so cool, and look at you now” “How did this all happen?”
And that’s the breakup... you leave. You know you have to, cause life together has lost all its spice and sparkle, but that doesn’t make it easier for you anyway. She’s the one you loved, and even if you’re the one leaving, you did see yourself spending your life with her…
I guess many of us Jamiroquai fans have reached “breakup point” today.
I fell in love with Jamiroquai as soon as I first heard “Too Young to Die”. That was the music I had always wanted to hear and they totally rocked my world. EOPE was the best thing I had ever listened to. ROTSC did surprise me a bit at first with its rather “raw” sound, but, within two weeks I had totally adopted it and still love it today. TWM, when it came out, was also very different from what the band had done previously, but it all was an instant classic and remains a killer album even today… That was my “honeymoon” period. Jamiroquai really brought Technicolor to my life and was a total revolution in the music I listened to.
And then things began sitting still a bit. Years and albums passed by, and I remained in that “comfortable” relationship. “Synkronized” had its highlights and was globally cool, AFO was OK as well. It was a bit “weak” and too easy in my opinion, yet, I bought dozens of singles, promos and all kind of stuff ‘cause, hey, Jamiroquai’s the (musical) love of my life, no need for discussion!
As “Dynamite” arrived, like everyone else, I was like “What the fuck is that Feels Just Like It Should single? That’s lame and that’s not my Jamiroquai!”. I remember there had been a lot of arguments as well at that time. But as we got to listen to the rest of the album, it was all “our” Jamiroquai again. It was again all rather easy and no way revolutionary, but everyone found his own highlights in the album. It definitely couldn’t be everyone’s favorite, but it had enough to calm everyone down.
And all these years, I think many of us have been slowly drifting away from Jamiroquai, but the band always remained our “anchor point” in the musical world and, everytime there was a new album coming in, we all got together and enjoyed the music. We could walk away for a while, listen to other stuff, Jamiroquai still remained THE band.
Now five years have passed since Dynamite. Everyone’s been busy with their own stuff and we hear that “Tadaaaaaa” Jamiroquai are back!!! As usual, everyone rushes in, but the news aren’t good this time. “Rock Dust Light Star” doesn’t sound very impressive?*Never mind, no one liked “Feels Just like” but the rest of the album was fine, let’s wait for the other stuff. Then we get a glimpse of “White Knuckle Ride”. Most people, me included, were sure it was a remix… No it’s not. Damn, it’s not exactly the “raw and funky sound” we’d been promised! But they just announced the first single “Blue Skies”… Yeah, first lead single in years, that has got to kick ass!!! Errr, no, it’s a bland ballad. Nothing awful though, but not exactly a “rocket single” that will propel the album on top of the charts…
And you begin to see that all of this doesn’t smell good, and you “wake up” saying that it’s not the Jamiroquai you fell in love with. Then follows the poor videos, the album cover (which isn’t great but which has also suffered of the general atmosphere of the angry fans), and “I’ve been hurting” which is, at best, a decent album filler IMO.
…and that’s where many of us decide to call it quits and pull the plug. And as I wrote in my “love relationship” chapter above, it’s not easy for the fans. Jamiroquai have been around their lives for years and, all of a sudden, they realize they’re gonna part ways “for good”, that “their” Jamiroquai has followed a path that isn’t the one they wanted. So they yell, they shout for brass, for funk, for Acid Jazz, for Stuart Zender, for whatever made them fall in love with the band.
Jamiroquai aren’t dead, that’s sure, and I still hope their path will be filled with success, but it’s just that, right now, many fans are deciding to let them go their own way without following them, and, somehow, it makes everyone sad, whether they express it with angry words, stop posting on forums or desperately try to find some kind of meaning in the singles and videos.
All the stupid replies on forums that say “Just leave if you don’t like Jamiroquai” just don’t get the point. People yelling and complaining LOVE and CARE about the band. They’re just pissed about a long relationship that’s coming to an end!
On my end, unless very good surprises regarding RDLS come by, I am NOT buying the album, and even though it’s a deliberate choice, it will feel very strange not to go out and buy it as soon as it hits the shelves! It’s not easy to say “OK, it’s time to pull the plug”. Jamiroquai will forever be the best thing that ever happened to me music-wise. Pretty much everything I listen to today somehow derives from Jamiroquai and I know I owe them an awful lot.
Thanks to whoever will read this through (congrats’, didn’t expect you to!!!). It’s all a mixture of personal feelings and what I believe to be generalities regarding the fans, and I think it’s pretty much explanatory of what’s going on… Thanks again for reading!
Last edited by Trolll on Tue Sep 28, 2010 13:43; edited 1 time in total |
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Winterkat
Moderator & Officer
Joined: 15 Aug 2010
Posts: 591
Location: Brussels
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| Posted: Tue Sep 28, 2010 10:48 |
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Eventhough it has a sad message, you wrote a beautiful post.
I hope you will find after the split that maybe pastures weren't necessarily greener on the other side. Many split up couples get back together at one point or another.
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ragadoodles
Joined: 06 Sep 2005
Posts: 113
Location: Germany
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| Posted: Tue Sep 28, 2010 12:06 |
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Trolll....that´s it! and I TOTALLY agree with you,thank you for this post.
My "relationship" started 1993,that´s 17 long years. Since Dynamite I fell something going wrong,and in the meantime i fell cheated.
I´ve bought all albums unheard in the past. This time I´ll hear it in the store,only then I´ll make a final decision.
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russky
Joined: 06 Jun 2005
Posts: 3396
Location: Chester, U.K
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| Posted: Tue Sep 28, 2010 12:17 |
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that's a contender for the 'Post Of The Year Awards'.
beautifully put 
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Cristina
Joined: 14 Feb 2002
Posts: 256
Location: Luxemburg
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| Posted: Tue Sep 28, 2010 12:33 |
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François, you perfectly descripted how I feel and, I think how a big part of us feel right now.
In 1999 I saw a documentary on French TV channel Arte about Jamiroquai. That’s when I discovered them and was “in love” with the group and about the message they wanted to deliver to the world.
I mainly became fan just because of EOPE’s message… and of course the music.
Now I don't know how "my relationship" with Jamiroquai will continue. I will wait for the album to come out. I cannot say for the moment that I will NOT buy the album but you never know...
I still owe Jamiroquai something big : (I met my lovely boyfriend  (VAX) via the french jamiroquai forum in 2002...) so maybe I will "repay" it in giving them another chance in this album release...
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Zsoma
Joined: 23 Nov 2004
Posts: 1369
Location: Hungary
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| Posted: Tue Sep 28, 2010 12:40 |
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| russky wrote: |
that's a contender for the 'Post Of The Year Awards'.
beautifully put |
Let me echo this! Beautifully said Francois, my thoughts too!
| Quote: |
| Jamiroquai will forever be the best thing that ever happened to me music-wise. Pretty much everything I listen to today somehow derives from Jamiroquai and I know I owe them an awful lot. |
Exactly the same on my end!!!! I got to know a LOT of people through Jamiroquai, the hungarian site and through musicians to whom the key have always been my passion for the quality music Jamiroquai got me familiar with. |
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Trolll
Joined: 27 May 2002
Posts: 335
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| Posted: Tue Sep 28, 2010 12:52 |
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Thanks for the nice comments !
@ Winterkat : It's a "no hard feelings" breakup, and I'll sure still be around "lurking in the dark" for what the boys do, and will happily jump back on the wagon if they do great stuff again ! (or if RDLS shows up to contain some unexpected gems! Cause, after all, we're only judging 4 tracks, 2 videos and some artwork... but no "positive signals" for me so far)
The last summer tour was absolutely wicked and I'm very glad I managed to see them play (and this makes the "surprise" of this album even bitter I guess). Whenever Jamiroquai do some stuff I like, I'll be around for sure! |
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Cosmic Noe
Joined: 03 Nov 2007
Posts: 101
Location: Buenos Aires, Argentina
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| Posted: Tue Sep 28, 2010 13:31 |
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@Trolll: beautiful message. Almost crying, for real
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Space Clav
Expert
Joined: 21 Nov 2005
Posts: 1732
Location: The Internet
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| Posted: Tue Sep 28, 2010 14:51 |
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Beautifully put indeed François. You put words to my thoughts exactly.
I was attracted by Jamiroquai around New Year's 92/93 (bought WYGL Acid Jazz release in London) and it became a full blown love affair when EOPE came out. And when I also saw the band live at the Roskilde Festival in Denmark the summer of 1993 it was like exchanging rings... I even bought a digeridoo at the very same festival.
With TROTSC my love wanted to 'try something new in between the sheets', it was rougher with its rawer sound, and I absolutely LOVED it... instantly! In my book both EOPE and TROTSC are equally good, in their own way. I choose to listen to them when I'm in different moods. EOPE to me is kinda summery while TROTSC fits very well during the darker period of the year.
TWM was yet again different. For me, it took a while to accept this change. This was a bit of a turning point. Something had changed and I wasn't so sure I loved it. Sure, I liked it, A LOT. But I didn't love it like I used to do. It's a killer album, don't get me wrong. But if I had the luxury of setting the agenda I would've made them keep their old style. TWM absolutely reeks of Jamiroquai though. In my opinion it was the first step of getting a more commercial sound, more radio friendly if you wish. But the Jamiroquai vibe was still intact.
Synkronized was a bit of a disappointment at first. Canned Heat floored me immediately of course. But I missed Stuart Zender. Synkronized has some very well crafted songs still retaining that special Jamirovibe. I absolutely love Falling. Anyway, I guess I didn't see that at first... blinded by the loss of Stu. I must admit that knowing what could've been (ie 'Midnight Funk') made me shed a tear or two. But...
...once AFO was released I realised how much I had underrated Synkronized. Sure, I still thought some AFO songs were catchy, good songs, at least compared to other contemporary chart music. But it wasn't "my Jamiroquai" anymore. Like a zombie, true to my habits, I kept buying CD singles and promos because I wanted my collection to grow. But I didn't get everything I could lay my hands on like I used to.
Then came Dynamite. My first encounter with this album was FJLIS. I was devastated. What's this? It sure ain't Jamiroquai! Suddenly I even started to appreciate AFO. This was an act of desperation of course. Because once I heard the other songs I realised that the band I love had managed to retain some of the sound that made me fall in love all those years ago. The production was too clean and polished, listening in head phones gave me digital fatigue. It sounded very Pro Toolish. But I did still enjoy some of the songs. Too bad 'Time Won't Wait' wasn't a regular title on the CD. I really wonder why it was chosen as a bonus track. It deserved so much more. I still rate Dynamite higher than AFO. If you ignore the sterile production some songs are way more Jamiroquaish than most of the songs on AFO. That's just my personal opinion about the songs and their potential. I mean, with a different recording/production method Dynamite would've been a much much better album than it was... in my humble opinion of course. During the Dynamite era I bought even less singles/promos than during the AFO era. I saved my cash instead and used them to hunt down some of those holy grails I couldn't find or afford in the past.
Now... I don't know what to think. White Knuckle Ride sounds a bit like the Jamiroquai I know, but then again it doesn't. I'd like to compare it to some of the good songs on Dynamite. It has potential, but it's too... well, I guess over produced is the phrase I'm looking for. Don't get me wrong, I'll choose WKR any day compared to Lady Gaga or any other lame chart artist of today. It's ok... not bad, but also not the kind of tune that makes me wanna empty my wallet completely to get every version released.
Rock Dust Light Star has some very interesting parts. But just as Radio it's not my cup of tea. I have a different taste. As a musician I can definitely appreciate this song for what it is, a very well written and well executed song. But it ain't Jamiroquai. Not "my Jamiroquai". If I try to set aside my bias and compare WKR and RDLS I must admit that the latter is definitely the better song, musically speaking that is, personal taste left out.
Blue Skies... it's a beautiful song with some lush strings. But for a guy who isn't a big fan of ballads I need something more than this to let my guard down and embrace it. Ballads really have to be something special special to appeal to me. The fact that I don't like BS has nothing to do with its quality or anything. It's just a type of ballad that doesn't ring my bell. A ballad with Rhodes, strings, horns and an even more bluenotish approach would probably touch me much more than BS does.
Hurtin'... well, for me this isn't Jamiroquai. It sounds a bit like Lenny Kravitz. That isn't necessarily a bad thing, Lenny has done some wicked songs. Even though I'm anything but a rocker I must admit that the song is quite cool. Rob throws in some sweet licks at the right places. Jay's voice is different, works well with this type of tune. But after a while the song itself is rather monotonous. I want key changes, break downs, different parts cleverly stitched together (Just Another Story is like the schoolbook example on how to please the Space Clav  )... I want a song that is interesting from the beginning to the end. This version of Hurtin' is not. At least not for me.
With Jamiroquai I've gone from a young man with no worries to a grown family man with nothing but worries, lol. Joking aside, they've been a big part of almost half my life. I was 21 turning 22 when I discovered them, now I'm pushing 40. To see a band that has made so much impact on me change this much is taking its toll.
<pessimist mode on> I really hope Jay and the boys have thrown in a couple of songs that will soften the cold stone hearts of old schoolers like myself. We do not expect a trip back to the mid 90's, but at least a few songs keeping the original funk/jazz/disco Jamirovibe. Ie the stuff we all know and wanna dance to, but with a modern twist. This is what made us love you. If all that is gone and replaced with simple rock'n'roll this almost 18 year long magic journey may have to come to an end at November 1st... at least temporarily. I can't be loyal just because of our history together. I must be fed to survive as a fan. <pessimist mode off>
<optimist mode on> I still haven't given up hope. I can't wait for the album. I will buy it in one shape or another. If it has enough songs that I like I'll buy the CD. If there are just a song or two I like I'll probably just buy them off iTunes. If singles are released with B-sides that I like I'll buy them, even if the A-sides aren't my cup of tea. <optimist mode off>
<pessimist+optimist mode on> And even if the album and all the singles, God forbid, would "suck" completely I will always hope for a change for the better in the future. A proper return of the space cowboy would definitely make me wanna hook up again. 5 years from now or when I'm 65. I'd never leave my love completely, I'll stand in the shadows, waiting, hoping for a reason to reunite. <pessimist+optimist mode off>
I won't panic, I hope I'll like it. 
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