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Negative critics about the new stuff
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Jamarcus



Joined: 10 Feb 2009
Posts: 142
Location: California


PostPosted: Thu Sep 30, 2010 03:02    Reply with quote


jamirokaki wrote:
like the new songs or no, true fans who loves the band and his bandmembers, like the jamily, will support jamiroquai.
and going to their concert will be always a very good experience cause you will hear good stuff anyway!

Do you like the new songs? Only RDLS live version has endeared itself to me. I just know the studio version will somehow be diluted.
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teecheedeedee



Joined: 16 Dec 2006
Posts: 219
Location: Wellington, New Zealand


PostPosted: Thu Sep 30, 2010 04:05    Reply with quote


Best wishes for your new Baby Meike.

As for the music, it really has become a huge debate between fans. Honestly, Jamiroquai is a band of such high calibre that criticism is to be expected, and especially with higher standards than most.

Jamiroquai's musicians are all highly competent. I have little doubt of this. But simply, there is very little vibrance in the new music. Listen to what they are playing. It is sterile, there is absolutely no element of pushing the limits, playing anything intricate or technically impressive. This was not so at all for the early albums, which were very ambitious in many ways.

I prefer to look at the music from a more technical perspective. This is not a personal attack. But as a drummer of many years, Derrick's recent drum tracks are incredibly conservative. I'm pretty sure he's capable of much more, but he doesn't seem to get the opportunity. Jamiroquai was always a band driven by the bass playing and drums (like almost every good band IMHO), but the rythm section is totally watered down and weak nowadays.

I'd be willing to bet that most jamiroquai fans who are musicians/ have musical training would agree with my sentiment, or share similar criticisms.
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alyd



Joined: 24 Apr 2005
Posts: 203


PostPosted: Thu Sep 30, 2010 10:58    Reply with quote


Derrick's always been a groove player though, where is there an elaborate drum part by him on any Jamiroquai album? Him and Sola keep it moving but I don't know what technical limits you're thinking them pushing in the past?

And the bass is the same as it's always been, a solid pulse in the track depending on the tempo. Zender used to play the odd fast run now and then but no more than the others, he just had a distinct tone.

The first record has the most progressive structures and a lot of that is down to the Acid Jazz/Van Gelder approach - drums on Revolution 93 and Whatever It Is, I Just Can't Stop having a great deal to do with it.

With Derrick and indeed the rest of them the second record is just as complex but a much deeper groove; Van Gelder went for a much clippier approach and the sounds of The Return of the Space Cowboy are just fatter altogether.

After that it all changed and you can hear the hints of the Al Stone approach that we'd get in Travelling Without Moving in the production of TROTSC even if the actual structures of things like Stillness in Time could easily be on the first record.

The last of the classic sound is on Synkronized with things like Soul Education but even that has a hefty new swagger like Black Capricorn Day but the sound of things to come was Planet Home which though not produced like A Funk Odyssey could easily have been on it.

Dynamite is a welcome return to some warmer instrument sounds and that seems to have been kept for Rock Dust Light Star but with the usual disco bounce for White Knuckle Ride. Sure, Blue Skies sounds like Will Young but this is not the first time he's done a ballad like that and probably won't be the last.

Oddities like Blue Skies have been singles before, King for a Day and Corner of the Earth to name two but they always had their more in pocket counterparts in Canned Heat and Little L respectively.

If you don't like the way this plays out then you should have got off the Jamiroquai train ten years ago rather than what seems to have happened with so many fans; spending the last decade moaning that the records don't sound like the first three.

This is not news, we now have more albums not like the first three than we do that 'classic' Jamiroquai sound. People waiting and sighing that they don't sound like that anymore should not be moaning about Rock Dust Light Star once again not being their thing, for the reasons I've put in this post and my previous one* - in my humble opinion Smile

*http://www.jamirotalk.net/forum/viewtopic.php?p=144154#144154
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teecheedeedee



Joined: 16 Dec 2006
Posts: 219
Location: Wellington, New Zealand


PostPosted: Thu Sep 30, 2010 11:54    Reply with quote


I disagree with some points there (Respectfully, you obviously did read what I wrote carefully). ROTSC has some quite elaborate drumming, with tracks like Just Another Story and Mr Moon. And I'd actually say Van Gelder is more of a pocket player, his playing is far more relaxed. Jay wanted a more dominating presense on the drums, and Nick was sacked.

I strongly disagree about the bass as well. Solid pulse doesn't make great bass playing, it's the intricate interaction and groove with the drums and other rythm section.

I'd argue that dynamite was barely, if at all, a return to warmer instrument sounds. It was still incredibly synthesized and over produced. I guess in his defense, Derrick only played on 4ish tracks (might be incorrect there).

I believe the key problem with the current band is that Jay has too much influence, relative to the other members. Would be nice to hear some tracks just written by them. And the album covers of AFO, Dynmaite and now RDLS don't exactly defend JK here, seems like a bit of an ego trip.

At the end of the day - yeah i guess all the criticism can seem pretty whiney. It's a testament to how good the original band really was. I guess myself and others take so much joy in the oldschool music that it's really depressing seeing what they produce now, and we feel we must vocalise our disapointment.

And in all honesty, many oldschool fans have left the boat. Respect to those who actually say WHY they like/dislike the music, it makes for a much better discussion. Cheers.
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Jamirobeto



Joined: 30 Oct 2004
Posts: 258
Location: Lima, Peru


PostPosted: Thu Sep 30, 2010 16:11    Reply with quote


i was just checking some of the news and came across this thread, some great posts round here, some describe what i feel too.

just to add something... have you guys been listening to the lyrics? I never thought jmq had the best lyrics ever (always thought that was a weak point in the band) but out of these 4 tracks we've heard so far i can't say i've found quality in them... i'll put all my hopes on the other tracks
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jamirokaki
Expert


Joined: 29 Jan 2003
Posts: 3472
Location: basque country


PostPosted: Thu Sep 30, 2010 16:25    Reply with quote


Jamarcus wrote:
jamirokaki wrote:
like the new songs or no, true fans who loves the band and his bandmembers, like the jamily, will support jamiroquai.
and going to their concert will be always a very good experience cause you will hear good stuff anyway!

Do you like the new songs? Only RDLS live version has endeared itself to me. I just know the studio version will somehow be diluted.


i only heard them once and not really with a good sound equipment. the songs are not touching me at all.
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HoneyBee



Joined: 21 Jul 2010
Posts: 673


PostPosted: Thu Sep 30, 2010 17:53    Reply with quote


Just wanna say one thing:

Nobody can ever say that all Jamiroquai songs sound the same anymore!

This is some true variety here. Funk/Rock/Pop -just waiting for a Club mix.

But I'm very flexible. Because I like variety, and diversity. Sorta think 'outa the box'. Not caged in. Enjoy different music genres. Appreciate art.

It doesn't need to be Jamiroquai producing the music. It just needs to be good. Step away from the band, and listen to the music.

Can you do it?

Cool
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alyd



Joined: 24 Apr 2005
Posts: 203


PostPosted: Fri Oct 01, 2010 00:01    Reply with quote


teecheedeedee wrote:
Respect to those who actually say WHY they like/dislike the music, it makes for a much better discussion. Cheers.


As you've just proved and your observations actually swing me the other way on many of the things you mention - there's many sides to it all and no accounting for taste. But I think you're unarguably right that Jamiroquai has become Jay and the whole thing was better when that wasn't so.

With instrumentation I guess we have different appreciations of technique and feel but I wouldn't say you're wrong in what you say at all.

Great response though, cheers for that... though in fairness you're in a very small minority making a cogent case that can be discussed - understandable when it's something people care about that there's 90% venting of emotion and 10% thought in most comments one sees on youtube etc Smile
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Pepela



Joined: 28 Jun 2005
Posts: 649
Location: Firenze, Italia


PostPosted: Fri Oct 01, 2010 00:25    Reply with quote


Actually I didn't want to say anything negative - it just upsets me that for the 1st time in all those years here was made a topic for negatives. We were always good in critics and there were debates also before but not in this way when almost everyone seems to grow in his own eyes by saying "new album is sh*t".
What I wanna say is that if it's different it's not bad and c'mon JMQ will never be the way it used to in 93.
And please also don't forget that we love JMQ for live performances and how was even FJLIS performed in jazzy funky way so don't become upset too early! Let's wait until the release and until we hear the album live and until then let's just enjoy w/o prejudice. Rolling Eyes
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Cesar



Joined: 22 Aug 2002
Posts: 181
Location: Rio de Janeiro, Brazil


PostPosted: Fri Oct 01, 2010 00:28    Reply with quote


Zsoma wrote:

brass section is back on stage after 10 years


Yeah!!!!
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mr.az



Joined: 01 Sep 2005
Posts: 2421
Location: rallying


PostPosted: Fri Oct 01, 2010 01:44    Reply with quote


HoneyBee wrote:
Just wanna say one thing:

Nobody can ever say that all Jamiroquai songs sound the same anymore!

This is some true variety here. Funk/Rock/Pop -just waiting for a Club mix.

But I'm very flexible. Because I like variety, and diversity. Sorta think 'outa the box'. Not caged in. Enjoy different music genres. Appreciate art.

It doesn't need to be Jamiroquai producing the music. It just needs to be good. Step away from the band, and listen to the music.

Can you do it?

Cool

you are right

btw, i love to see brass again¡¡¡¡¡
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TWM=RDLS
AFO=AUTOMATON
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iranterres



Joined: 02 Apr 2008
Posts: 422
Location: Brasil


PostPosted: Fri Oct 01, 2010 04:57    Reply with quote


alyd wrote:

If you don't like the way this plays out then you should have got off the Jamiroquai train ten years ago rather than what seems to have happened with so many fans; spending the last decade moaning that the records don't sound like the first three.


1 - Let's divide Jamiroquai's story in 2 parts, before and after AFO, now imagine Jamiroquai debuting in the charts with an album like Dynamite. I just can't see any perspective for them.

2 - Many guys here only got to know the band in between the Synk~AFO period, and many of them, only after AFO.

The old school fans (the immense majority) know that Jamiroquai has become Jamiroquai, thanks to these 3 first albums. The solid fanbase was formed around that, they have no need to be called whiney (those who will say the band cannot repeat itself, go back and sit).

Jamiroquai blasted the music scene inside a rising music genre wich was acid jazz, but also they were funk advocates, and old music style. Still they managed to make it superbly innovative, they were all young (stu still underage!) They mixed styles, little boys able to perform with complex arrangements, DJ scratching. Now they are copied by many. Imagine back in 1993 they came with an isolent album, slashing the politics and carrying an enviromentalism flag, a theme that is talked almost everytime today, 18 years later!

The main difference between EOPE~SYNK period from the period of AFO~RDLS is the total lack of sound direction the band provides. They kinda lost ground overwhelmed by Jay's/Label control. You know it's quite awkward to listen a song like Emergency on Planet Earth and then watch Jay singing stuff like 'hey look how cool is my car' or 'ohh yeah yeah yeah get the tide on my white knuckle ride!'... it's not really easy to absorb when you're facing mediocrity. And before people start talking about evolution of a band, stop with this bullshit right here... There was a clear evolution from EOPE to TROTSC, and to TWM, There was an ok-mood-swing on SYNK but from AFO afterwards there was no definite direction.

RDLS album cover is a disaster, damn it, i wanted to see the guys playing together, or just put the good old buffalo man in there because Jay alone can't do shit.
I support Jamiroquai since my early childhood, i kinda grew up listening to them. And i know when someone enjoys them, and seek their music, they shall be looking for differentiaton, and if the old school fans whine, it's because they know it's the right way, but romanticaly, because seems a way of no return.Deviation from the mainstream oriented music now is utopia, Jamiroquai today seem to run in the same direction. This will be of no use, because the band is known (on the very mainstream) as a bunch of guys who did good music even by the most pop-oriented retarded person standards. Now Jamiroquai seems like "someone else" in this music crowd. Live-wise, Jamiroquai is one of the world highest standards, album-wise, is becoming mediocre.
Even so, i believe on them, maybe when Jay gets older he will be able to see things more clearly as the time goes by and someday he will want to rescue those old values because that's how life does. And i still believe i will enjoy some stuff from this album, but once again i will tout that the so promised live mode/organic feel is still absent (apart from the nice live performances), maybe Jay was in a high drug intake during that statement... Maybe?
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almatri



Joined: 07 Dec 2006
Posts: 239


PostPosted: Fri Oct 01, 2010 13:17    Reply with quote


TBH they became really popular with Virtual Insanity, and it has nothing to do with the emergency on planet earth/ROTSC sound
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alyd



Joined: 24 Apr 2005
Posts: 203


PostPosted: Fri Oct 01, 2010 19:04    Reply with quote


almatri wrote:
TBH they became really popular with Virtual Insanity, and it has nothing to do with the emergency on planet earth/ROTSC sound


Precisely. That's the point I was making about Blue Skies, they've always done this.

Reading iranterres' post I was thinking how they started as an alternative cool underground thing but very quickly became a pop act with hit singles. I don't understand how so many Jamiroquai fans have this hatred of pop and the mainstream when this is precisely the territory the band have always occupied since they first released an LP.

We've talked about the change in the sound and we all have our own personal takes on that but the idea that AFO or any other record saw them sell out sounds like people wanting their pet band to be something they're not.

The save the whales stuff very quickly made way for singles about dope and cars or "yeah it's alright" so to point at the material now and say it's vacuous is to have ignored it in the past either through being younger when that previous stuff came out or other rose tinted spectacles.

If you were 17 when the first record came out you're now 34 - people don't tend to like the same stuff and to blame the stuff for that is missing a great deal of other factors, imho.

Jay may still wear tracksuits but he's changed musically and creatively over that period and I think quite a lot of his fans should too.
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Zsoma



Joined: 23 Nov 2004
Posts: 1369
Location: Hungary


PostPosted: Fri Oct 01, 2010 19:16    Reply with quote


alyd wrote:

Jay may still wear tracksuits but he's changed musically and creatively over that period and I think quite a lot of his fans should too.

Strongly disagree - why would I need to change my taste in music?
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