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iranterres
Joined: 02 Apr 2008
Posts: 422
Location: Brasil
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 Posted: Tue Feb 11, 2014 18:10 |
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| Curry wrote: |
| iranterres wrote: |
Seriously.
I'm tired of this morosity, Jamiroquai can no longer excite me as a band. I used to love them back in the 90's and 2000's but they today are just a shadow from what they used to be.
Jay has got up himself all over his mind and we don't see anything refreshing since AFO, WTF. Just look what they did the last album... The best songs did't even make it as released singles... Seriously...
I bet i'm not the only one with this rant. I'm sorry. |
So AFO was the album that did it for you, then? Was it because it kept the mood up all the way through or was it because nothing hit you so hard it made you stop and think?
Or maybe it's not even the fact that it's the album, but the marketing behind the album? If that's the case, I don't understand it either. However sometimes people hit rock bottom with their creativity, like their muse is gone and they need to find it again. Perhaps he placed his trust in the wrong hands? Would explain the treatment of the last album. The cover wasn't the greatest, even for the North American release...2 years later...
Now that I think about it, I'm quite sure it's him placing his trust with the wrong people or not properly micromanaging is affairs. |
AFO did nothing to me honestly, since I use to check on Jamiroquai since the band started.
I'm known here at these forums from expressing a technical point of a view on the matters of the band and this time will be different...
I mentioned AFO because it represented a clear break from the previous work (SYNK), as did TWM from TROTSC and as the former did to EOPE. And aside from people's preferences there was a truly funcional concept behind each work, and this is what impressed me on the old Jamiroquai. Forget it about being a "live band" that is the very bullshit of this whole discussion, simple as that, because if you have a good background (in this case, the albums) the rest is a matter of time, and this is what I don't see anymore. The band back in the 90's and early 2000's was not known for it being a "live band" or any of the sorts, it was known for crafting great albums, being a very talented set of musicians and with a frontman with an awesome voice, wich used to astonish the audience with their live performances and that is it. As an artist, I would feel deeply sad to be known as a "live band" as the fan excuse for my lack of creativity on my recent years. Seriously, think about it.
I state it exactly because it were Jay's own words back then, saying you can't repeat yourself and what i see the most now is more from the same since AFO, Dynamite looks like a detuned version of it, and RDLS despite sounding much better, failed (in my opinion) to deliver what it promised, looks very irregular to me. And then you get a pretty awesome band, live band? I still fail to come with terms with this designation, do you really want to know what I see as live bands? Metallica, Iron Maiden. Great live, can drag dozens of thousands to fill stadiums around the world, but did absolutely nothing on the past 20 years besides of it. Oh if you think i'm talking of a determined music gender? Stevie Wonder, one of the music gods also lives on a similar state... Of course, Jamiroquai sounds awesome live on these days, I say they sound much tighter live as they sounded on the earlier days, but i can't say they sound better now, they were more energetic back then and this is crucial.
Album wise, forget Zender, forget the splendid horn section of the old, forget Wallis and the vibes, forget Katz and his ethereal sounding guitar, the band greatest asset loss was Sir Toby Smith. Jay Kay is not half the songwriter he used to be with Toby, that was a true music powerhouse that drove the band mostly through their most creative period. Jay today has had few flashes of work, but without Toby Jay looks ordinary and orphaned.
Maybe it is time to Jay re think its ways, being it on management, personality, lifestyle, whatever, from everything what was being said about RDLS and the organic approach, after the dust cleared, things seems pretty void now.
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ophone
Joined: 31 May 2005
Posts: 2191
Location: Lëtzebuerg
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| Posted: Tue Feb 11, 2014 20:55 |
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| iranterres wrote: |
the band greatest asset loss was Sir Toby Smith. |
Exactly what I think too.
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HoneyBee
Joined: 21 Jul 2010
Posts: 673
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| Posted: Tue Feb 11, 2014 21:34 |
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I came back to correct that "Jamiroquai" is Jay Kay, like a brand .
The main ideas I believe are his, but many band members do help write the tunes. I like the current band members, and are very talented.
But I do believe Toby was brilliant.
Iranterres keep posting. you're keeping this forum alive!
but I do want to know which group you hold to the highest.
(be back later to add more) |
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iranterres
Joined: 02 Apr 2008
Posts: 422
Location: Brasil
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| Posted: Wed Feb 12, 2014 00:21 |
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| HoneyBee wrote: |
I came back to correct that "Jamiroquai" is Jay Kay, like a brand .
The main ideas I believe are his, but many band members do help write the tunes. I like the current band members, and are very talented.
But I do believe Toby was brilliant.
Iranterres keep posting. you're keeping this forum alive!
but I do want to know which group you hold to the highest.
(be back later to add more) |
Hey Honey, long time uh...
Well there is not a band or group that I hold the highest. but there's a handful that I speak with the highest regard. But the finest example I have towards this discussion is...
Queen: Freddie Mercury is a music entity on its own, but the whole group is so talented... So tight... and so energetic that they could easily move a 100,000 people audince exactly the way they wanted. Brian May and his emblematic guitar, and the dude is so awesome that he built his own guitar! And the thing sounds unique. Roger Taylor with his dry but at the same time heavy grooves sometimes made you confused if you was listening to heavy metal or a ballad. John Deacon and his power chords, so precise and symmetric bass style completed the sauce. Freddie felt like a good on stage and was somewhat, he could make you sing or do whatever he wanted you to do, you and the other 99,000 alongside you. His powerful voice, there was never one like his, and as for voice, all of them are awesome singers, the overdubing and the live acapellas were so supreme that all you could do was to sit back and watch, in awe.
As for the Old Jamiroquai, you could see it playing live, or just listening the albums to notice that they were connected, like they were reading the same book at the same page and at the same time, and after an album was complete, and the tour had begun, that showed up in their live performances. On stage they used to rely on eachother constantly, Toby constantly checking on Jay, and Jay taking Toby as his bastion for the setlist, Zender, D-Zire Sola and Derrick watching eachother while playing just to keep the groove as tight as they could, Katz always steady and reliable on guitar, very discrete but at the same time very sophisticated playing. Not to mention the Horns taking cover on Jay's then beautiful voice. Wallis was a distinct piece of presentation with his "vibes".
The very same result you had live and in the albums made by these people back then. The Jamiroquai of today is different, is not worse, is not better, but for me it just looks less charming, the music is made without much input from the "band" and when there is, it is very sporadic or isolated and for me, the results look a lot less denser than they used to be, maybe the time made Jay wary of many things and this reflects now.
Anyway, Honey, there you go 
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HoneyBee
Joined: 21 Jul 2010
Posts: 673
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| Posted: Wed Feb 12, 2014 05:02 |
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Hi Iranterres, -well it sounds like you're kinda in the dumps over this 
but I love all the details you give because your so passionate over music!
So, I just wanted to know which band you hold the highest.
Because I couldn't think of who could possibly be the perfect band.
but you couldn't have picked a better band!! Queen!!
I grew up listening to them, and they are solid.
Mercury was quite the vocalist, from beginning to end.
May is an iconic guitarist. Deacon & Taylor, all legends.
They were a very unique band, for sure. And I love them.
Jay orphaned w/o Toby! 
Kinda my philosophy of life. When we have expectations, we will be disappointed. Same for music, people, governments...
Last edited by HoneyBee on Wed Feb 12, 2014 19:06; edited 1 time in total |
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Curry
Joined: 19 Mar 2013
Posts: 184
Location: Arizona, USA
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| Posted: Wed Feb 12, 2014 08:45 |
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Ok, I see what you're getting at, I think.
You're seeing the difference in Jay's brand of "being a band" and staying on track, versus Toby's brand of "being a band" and staying on track.
I believe we can remember how heavily Jay relied on Toby to translate what he wanted into actual sheet music, and thus the overall finished composition. Since Jay cannot read music (or very little of it by now), not to mention the choke-hold politics he has over his band, the difference in creativity and refreshing quality is the difference between air and water.
But I also have to give blame to Time, Marketability, and the overall pressure on oneself to produce a record breaking album...even though you're not in high demand anymore.
In a way, it's like saying "one man does not make the band." And at times a person could say "you're scraping the bottom of the barrel," or even ask "why do I feel as though the ideas aren't flowing like they should?"
Control.
20+ years as a brand, and Jay's trust hasn't matured. And that's probably the reason why the other albums since Toby's departure sound and are marketed vastly different and off kilter from their predecessors.
It's time to face the fact that every band in their prime sounds great. However Jamiroquai met that in the mid-nineties. That marketable face they had is no longer there. Many bands tend to slow down or start to break into new sounds just to. This is why I find no issue with them experimenting with their songs, just like I don't find their last album to be bad.
Actually what's good and what's bad is mainly dependent on how it's marketed. Sure there might be some bad songs, but if it's marketed correctly, then nearly everyone will start singing it's tune.
Now I'm not making this about them being a live band or that marketing is to blame all on it's own. It's actually about the creative flow of energy that either influences new ideas, lyrics, and sounds to arise...or a stale set energy that only wants what it wants and nothing else.
I find that if there's something up with the one who usually takes the lead in such things, then it will hold up any progress the band hopes to take. So with that said, perhaps something changed in Jay's life to where he felt this was the way to go? |
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ElTouffoDrum
Joined: 11 May 2013
Posts: 41
Location: France (50)
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HoneyBee
Joined: 21 Jul 2010
Posts: 673
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| Posted: Wed Feb 12, 2014 19:02 |
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Curry says interesting things. Jami's greatest sales is the '90's.
But think about it. Marvin Gaye made some of his greatest music on his last album, Midnight Love. His 3rd decade of recording. http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=gh2EDD_kdfo
@ElTouffoDrum celebrity- Can't take the fame & paparazzi! probably the meaning to WKR. So he was a bad boy!
(but if I was the girl he corners calling "Lovely" I would definitely have kicked him in the nuts!)
the end?- keep in mind this is days after the album's release. Not representive of how great they perform.
today our culture celebrates gossip, media hype, negativity, judgments of others...Why?
I just want the music to keep coming from Jamiroquai.
I hope Jay is inspired to continue to write.
I hope the band stays together.
I won't be disappointed because I thought they'd already broken up in '98, so everything to me is a bonus!
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Lua
Joined: 03 Mar 2012
Posts: 19
Location: Brazil
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| Posted: Wed Feb 12, 2014 19:24 |
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......why such a drama? 
I mean... every artist has it's apex, and you can not expect they keep the same forever. Like Garbage, No Doubt, Soundgarden, Fiona Apple... They are back with new music, but they will never sound like they did in the 90s again (and that doesn't mean they are not good anymore).
Dynamite is not a great album, but is quite good if you consider that they had to make an album without Toby after so many years together. Jay and the band did an experience and I believe that later, they realised that it didn't turn out so good... so they tried something different with RDLS, which for me is amazing. If this album "failed" was because of bad marketing, like some of you said.
But sometimes I think that Jay (maybe the whole band?) is really confortable the way he is... like... "ok, I'm old now, I'm glad for where I am, I have a lot of fans around the world, I don't need another hit single, I don't want to make more crazy videoclips... as long as I can do my stuff and tour, that's fine"
Anyway... I wasn't lucky. I was born in 94, I didn't see them on the top. But I'm happy to see them making new music, and I hope I can see them live again again and again.
Does that make sense..?
(I usually don't speak on forums and english is not my native language)
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ElTouffoDrum
Joined: 11 May 2013
Posts: 41
Location: France (50)
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| Posted: Wed Feb 12, 2014 21:17 |
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| Lua wrote: |
Anyway... I wasn't lucky. I was born in 94, |
You brazilian people have something more than us
Honeybee, i dont understand why "lovely" have a bad sense? He say it so charismaticly.. i would cheeks-kiss this epic face that he do |
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HoneyBee
Joined: 21 Jul 2010
Posts: 673
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| Posted: Thu Feb 13, 2014 04:26 |
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| ElTouffoDrum wrote: |
| Honeybee, i dont understand why "lovely" have a bad sense? He say it so charismaticly.. i would cheeks-kiss this epic face that he do |
No, the name Lovely is lovely. It's the way it's said. Body language is everything!! And just don't back someone in the corner.
I'm pretty sure it wasn't a proud moment. |
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Dye
Correspondent & Expert
Joined: 16 Nov 2003
Posts: 5146
Location: Planet Home; Buenos Aires, Argentina
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| Posted: Thu Feb 13, 2014 18:16 |
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Well... there's a fundamental thing you must realize: the band members are not the same from the 90's. That can pretty much give you an idea that the current line up won't sound or won't be just like they were. It's common sense.
That being said, the band is strong. Very strong. The last time I saw them live, last year, it was one of the best performances I've heard. Tight, professional. Sure, the setlist isn't very surprising anymore, but that's another subject for another conversation.
Sales and marketing and all that is very different from what it used to be. Nobody sells like in the 90's, the landscape, the market has changed. Times change. They've changed. We change. A song I disliked 10 years ago, I can probably love now because I've lived and experienced something that the song expresses. And so on.
I don't know, everyone is entitled to their own opinions, it's all very subjective. I read things in here like "Dynamite is not a great album" stated as a fact, which it shouldn't be.
Younger fans probably prefer the later albums, simply because they somehow 'marked' them a part of their life. Just like older fans prefer the first albums because of the same reasons. Does that make any album worse? or better? It doesn't matter, it matters only to the people who listened to those albums at one specific period of time.
I am, for one, very grateful that the band I like the most is still making good music and touring. That should be enough. |
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Sandriche
Officer & Jamily Coach
Joined: 07 Oct 2005
Posts: 5564
Location: Austraria
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| Posted: Thu Feb 13, 2014 19:22 |
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WORD ,Dye!!  
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Javis
Joined: 31 Oct 2006
Posts: 1530
Location: Córdoba, Argentina
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| Posted: Thu Feb 13, 2014 21:19 |
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Yeah, Dynamite was the first album I listened from Jamiroquai and it's fucking amazing to me. |
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ElTouffoDrum
Joined: 11 May 2013
Posts: 41
Location: France (50)
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| Posted: Thu Feb 13, 2014 22:46 |
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| Dye wrote: |
That being said, the band is strong. Very strong. The last time I saw them live, last year, it was one of the best performances I've heard. |
In my opinions the musicians are only technicians, but they don't have the virtue to be call "Jamiroquai"... Only "Jay Kay & friends" (or "Jay Kay & Servants  )
| Dye wrote: |
| They've changed. We change. |
Bring me a violin and a hanky.
I don't wait for a new EOPE, TROSCT, it will be ridicolous to wait for a 44 man wearing a peruvian hat.
But god if the musicians could have more talent of composition and less of technics, they could go on the quality of Synkronized or even TWM. Jay is a great musician, but he need somebody to "manage" and "channel" him.
And i still have faith, they are very close of this quality with song like "2completely different things", "Hey Floyd" and "That's Not The funk i want"...(and so far with "hurtin" "blues skies"..). Jay have to stop excess of substance (even if they are legal) and find real musicians to make the last album of the band. |
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