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Earni
Joined: 18 Jul 2011
Posts: 54
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 Posted: Tue Aug 26, 2014 21:50 |
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| Curry wrote: |
However, I disagree with the singles part. In essence, leaving it up to some released single to make or break an entire album is dumb. It's also lazy. There will be songs that you love, and there will be songs that you're not too crazy about. While Blue Skies and White Knuckle Ride were released as singles, we all know that they were far from being the strongest songs.
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I agree with you, the singles won't make or break an album. But I think I would rather buy or listen to an album which singles I like, than an album which singles I dislike. Maybe White Knuckle Ride and Blue Skies weren't the strongest songs on the album, but I (personally) think that White Knuckle Ride was a good single. It was also #1 on the singles chart in Italy, so it can't be that bad. 
| Curry wrote: |
But the real question is, do you heavily rely on the radio to tell you what you like or do you have enough individuality to make your own decisions?
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No, you don't have to rely on the radio, but (I think) most people will do. Instead of searching the internet for new music, most people listen to the radio for new music.
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...because these are high times that we are livin' in...
---Jamiroquai Fan since 2010--- |
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Javis
Joined: 31 Oct 2006
Posts: 1530
Location: Córdoba, Argentina
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| Posted: Tue Aug 26, 2014 22:08 |
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| Zsoma wrote: |
| I'm not asking for a critically acclaimed album, that's too much... |
Well I AM! XD
just kidding. but that would be SO GOOD |
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Dye
Correspondent & Expert
Joined: 16 Nov 2003
Posts: 5146
Location: Planet Home; Buenos Aires, Argentina
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| Posted: Tue Aug 26, 2014 22:12 |
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| Javis wrote: |
| Zsoma wrote: |
| I'm not asking for a critically acclaimed album, that's too much... |
Well I AM! XD
just kidding. but that would be SO GOOD |
The worst part of all is that they can do it. They're all competent enough to produce a strong, critically acclaimed album again. Less singles-like songs and more of a concept album, with special care in the instrumental part.
One of the reasons why The Return... is probably their best album is because how complex the music and the structure of the songs is. |
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Curry
Joined: 19 Mar 2013
Posts: 184
Location: Arizona, USA
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| Posted: Tue Aug 26, 2014 22:33 |
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| Javis wrote: |
| Zsoma wrote: |
| I'm not asking for a critically acclaimed album, that's too much... |
Well I AM! XD
just kidding. but that would be SO GOOD |
 I'm sure a lot of people are!
You're right. It's the nature of the buyer (in any situation) to rely on a sample to dictate how the whole product is. Even I hate to admit that, but it's true. Maybe I'm being wishful, but I'd like to believe that after a while of trusting a product, that a person would willingly go back to that product with the trust that it's quality is as good as ever without needing to sample it for a second, third, fourth time.
In that regard, I pretty much view a single as that sample. It's simply a preview.
In no way would I say that White Knuckle Ride or Blue Skies were bad songs, but they definitely were not Jamiroquai's strongest. So I guess this led to people prejudging the album based on that.
If one thing is "bad" or "weak" to a person, they automatically assume that it's the same for the rest.
Such a pity that has to happen. If only we can treat a musician's style like we can food. Right?
As for them hitting number 1 on Italy's charts...well....Italy's only 1 country. I'd like to see acclaim across the international board if we're going to talk about success. It's no insult to Italy, it's just that compared to the rest of the world, it's a mere blip on the music industry's radar. Not only that, but it's strength is determined by how easily they're knocked off the top 10 spot.
Last edited by Curry on Tue Aug 26, 2014 22:42; edited 1 time in total |
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Trolll
Joined: 27 May 2002
Posts: 335
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| Posted: Tue Aug 26, 2014 22:39 |
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Yay ! It's passionate discussions time on Jamirotalk !
Actually, I think White Knucle Ride was by far the best choice possible as lead single for RDLS. It's dynamic, disco-ish, danceable... I guess this song was the best way to draw attention and say "Hey! Jamiroquai are back!". Actually, just by hearing the tune, I guess many people can find out it's Jamiroquai.
It's not my favorite song in RDLS (and it's a pity they never managed to give the same energy on live versions IMO) but it was a good choice.
Blue Skies was a much weaker choice IMO as, precisely, it doesn't have the "Jamiroquai" signature all over it. Except for the voice, it seems to me it could be just any band or singer.
To me, single-wise, the suicide definitely was "Feels Just Like it Should". Because, back then, people were still waiting for THE new Jamiroquai album. AFO had been a success, with several hit singles.
When Dynamite came out, FJLIS was a total failure... precisely because (unlike WKR) the tune was miles away from the Jamiroquai trademark sound. Any other tune would have been a better choice. This, combined with the lack of promotion from Sony (but Jay had been digging his own grave with them!) led Dynamite to not be the event it should have been.
...and I think this a turning point for the band.
For the general audience, I think that's when Jamiroquai stopped being a surprising and innovative band. That's when they became "the band that released Canned Heat and Cosmic Girl" and not the band they kept hearing on the radio...
That was my two cents! Thanks for reading (if you have!) |
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Curry
Joined: 19 Mar 2013
Posts: 184
Location: Arizona, USA
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| Posted: Tue Aug 26, 2014 22:39 |
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| Javis wrote: |
| For me, there is not doubt Jamiroquai is still capable of writting good music. I think what we're discussing here, is if they are able to be popular again. |
It can happen. After all Daft Punk has been out for the same amount of time Jamiroquai has. But when they do songs, there's always someone or something that captures everyone's eye whether it's a popular musician or the way they do their video.
Someone should steal their playbook. lol |
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Dye
Correspondent & Expert
Joined: 16 Nov 2003
Posts: 5146
Location: Planet Home; Buenos Aires, Argentina
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| Posted: Tue Aug 26, 2014 22:53 |
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| Trolll wrote: |
To me, single-wise, the suicide definitely was "Feels Just Like it Should". |
I see your point. I remember reading that Sony wanted Dynamite as the first single, but Jay didn't want another similar 1st single like Canned Heat and Little L, so he decided to go with something different. And I can understand that point too. |
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Trolll
Joined: 27 May 2002
Posts: 335
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| Posted: Tue Aug 26, 2014 23:08 |
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Yes, I had also heard that Sony had other plans in mind than FJLIS at the time !
I also remember reading an interview in which Jay said they had a good budget to shoot the first video for the album and that's why he chose FJLIS: because he had all this weird sci-fi scenario in mind and thought it would be a cool vid.
Maybe he thought that Jamiroquai were so big that, whatever they released, it would work... |
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Curry
Joined: 19 Mar 2013
Posts: 184
Location: Arizona, USA
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| Posted: Wed Aug 27, 2014 01:40 |
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| Trolll wrote: |
| Maybe he thought that Jamiroquai were so big that, whatever they released, it would work... |
I don't think it was because he had a big head on his shoulders. I genuinely feel as though he didn't want Sony to pigeonhole him into some Little L/Canned Heat corner.
Because that, right there, is suicide to your image. The identity to how unique you are is at stake here.
Doing something different isn't a bad thing. I actually really like Feels Just Like It Should. However being told to keep on track with doing the same thing the other mainstream boys are doing is wrong.
I think he fought to have something different shown. |
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smellbob
Joined: 25 Feb 2002
Posts: 388
Location: Los Angeles, Ca
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| Posted: Wed Aug 27, 2014 06:12 |
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| Trolll wrote: |
Yay ! It's passionate discussions time on Jamirotalk !
Actually, I think White Knucle Ride was by far the best choice possible as lead single for RDLS. It's dynamic, disco-ish, danceable... I guess this song was the best way to draw attention and say "Hey! Jamiroquai are back!". Actually, just by hearing the tune, I guess many people can find out it's Jamiroquai.
It's not my favorite song in RDLS (and it's a pity they never managed to give the same energy on live versions IMO) but it was a good choice.
Blue Skies was a much weaker choice IMO as, precisely, it doesn't have the "Jamiroquai" signature all over it. Except for the voice, it seems to me it could be just any band or singer.
To me, single-wise, the suicide definitely was "Feels Just Like it Should". Because, back then, people were still waiting for THE new Jamiroquai album. AFO had been a success, with several hit singles.
When Dynamite came out, FJLIS was a total failure... precisely because (unlike WKR) the tune was miles away from the Jamiroquai trademark sound. Any other tune would have been a better choice. This, combined with the lack of promotion from Sony (but Jay had been digging his own grave with them!) led Dynamite to not be the event it should have been.
...and I think this a turning point for the band.
For the general audience, I think that's when Jamiroquai stopped being a surprising and innovative band. That's when they became "the band that released Canned Heat and Cosmic Girl" and not the band they kept hearing on the radio...
That was my two cents! Thanks for reading (if you have!) |
I'm sorry, but with all due respect, what the holy fuck are you talking about?
"FJLIS" Is one of the most successful singles they ever had. Dynamite is quite possibly the last good production they did.
Is "FJLIS" it the normal Jamiro sound, hell no it isn't, but it was very successful. It was featured in tons of commercials in the United States and in Great Britain.
Which is my main point, they just need to come out with something modern more electro R&B something on the other side of their traditional style to get new fans and us to stop bitching and be happy about it.
RDLS was a pretty shit album and if I weren't a long time fan I would have given up on them. I paid for it and as a fan of eighteen years I feel dignified to give my opinion.
That being said, I keep telling myself that there won't be album. Instead singles and LPs will be periodically released either by Jamiro or Jay himself and if a album comes it does, if it doesn't, it doesn't. I still love Jamiro and none of us here are music producers so we can't do anything about it.
Just be positive and stop taking it so seriously.
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Zsoma
Joined: 23 Nov 2004
Posts: 1369
Location: Hungary
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| Posted: Wed Aug 27, 2014 06:15 |
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| Dye wrote: |
The worst part of all is that they can do it. They're all competent enough to produce a strong, critically acclaimed album again. Less singles-like songs and more of a concept album, with special care in the instrumental part.
One of the reasons why The Return... is probably their best album is because how complex the music and the structure of the songs is. |
Again, let's not use ROTSC or TWM for the comparison since that was a completely different band and we have different ingredients to cook with (no question both albums are masterpieces).
The whole point of this is that Jay has the power to do whatever he wants! He's not bundled by a record company contract, music industry has changed completely and artists are less measured on album sales, yet he doesn't seem to give a crap about all that and all he's focused on is purchasing the latest Ferraris for his collection. |
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Trolll
Joined: 27 May 2002
Posts: 335
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| Posted: Wed Aug 27, 2014 08:59 |
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| smellbob wrote: |
I'm sorry, but with all due respect, what the holy fuck are you talking about?
"FJLIS" Is one of the most successful singles they ever had. Dynamite is quite possibly the last good production they did. |
I'm (the fuck) talking about the fact that FJLIS didn't work as a "locomotive" for the album.
Maybe things were different in the States, but, over here in France, I hardly ever saw the video on TV and hardly ever heard the song on the radio, and I think airplay was disappointing all over Europe.
Outside the "Jamirosphere", the biggest buzz I got about the song was about the SA-RA remix (which is absolutely wicked indeed), but even that remained very limited.
Comparatively, I saw the (cheap and crappy) WKR video MUCH more than FJLIS on French TV. But, once again, I can totally imagine there's a US/Europe gap over this.
| smellbob wrote: |
| Is "FJLIS" it the normal Jamiro sound, hell no it isn't, but it was very successful. It was featured in tons of commercials in the United States and in Great Britain. |
Please name a few, as I honestly can't remember any.
| smellbob wrote: |
| Which is my main point, they just need to come out with something modern more electro R&B something on the other side of their traditional style to get new fans and us to stop bitching and be happy about it. |
Ouch, if they go RnB, I'll definitely call it quits! But no one (and surely no band) can make everyone happy. Most of us are still stuck in the 1993/1996 glue so I guess they can do whatever they want, we'll always be moaning!
| smellbob wrote: |
| RDLS was a pretty shit album and if I weren't a long time fan I would have given up on them. I paid for it and as a fan of eighteen years I feel dignified to give my opinion. |
I'll agree with you on that. Maybe a week ago, I was dusting of my collection of records and over an afternoon, played all Jamiroquai LPs while working. At the end of the afternoon, I realized RDLS had left nothing in my mind, like it hadn't been played at all. RDLS is a totally decent album but most definitely not a milestone in music history (and as a fan of 21 years who probably once had the world's largest Jmrq collection around, I also feel dignified to give my opinion!).
| smellbob wrote: |
| That being said, I keep telling myself that there won't be album. Instead singles and LPs will be periodically released either by Jamiro or Jay himself and if a album comes it does, if it doesn't, it doesn't. I still love Jamiro and none of us here are music producers so we can't do anything about it. |
Yep, with all the changes in music industry, who knows what might come next. CDs are not the main source of income anymore, but I think you need CDs to get some airplay and have people coming at your shows. So I guess they still need to release albums, not quite to make money on them but to fill in arenas. I guess that's why companies like LiveNation make deals including the whole loop: studio / releases / tour.
I can't remember who wrote that earlier on, but the idea of doing little things on the Web, strenghtening the community, etc. is a great idea. Everyone still remembers "Smile", which was a really nice surprise. They need to do that more and update people on what they're doing, posting little videos of them recording in the studio or whatever. That's how you "keep the fire burning" !
| Curry wrote: |
I don't think it was because he had a big head on his shoulders. I genuinely feel as though he didn't want Sony to pigeonhole him into some Little L/Canned Heat corner.
Because that, right there, is suicide to your image. The identity to how unique you are is at stake here. |
I see the pigeonhole point, but I would rather follow Sony on there. Jamiroquai are famous for party/disco/groovy songs and it just works that way. Canned Heat was massive, Little L (even though definitely not my fave on AFO) rocked... Sony might be greedy, but they also knew what they were doing (most of the time).
To give a totally different example, if people know you as the best cupcake store in town, people will mainly come to your place to buy cupcakes. Full stop. You might launch other ranges of products, successfully or not, but you'll always keep making cupcakes because that's what pays the rent, that's the core of your business.
Now, if you want to go and sell pizzas, you might open a second store, give it a try and see if it works (as Jay could have side projects if he's fed up with disco-funk).
With Jamiroquai, the lead single IS the cupcake. That's what people go for. Then, inside the album, Jay can add his "other ranges of products" and showcase his talent.
Just like "Random Access Memories", which was mentionned earlier in the topic, actually! "Get Lucky" was a bait (and what a great bait) to lure you into the album which actually had very little to do with Get Lucky, and it worked more than just fine (well, Daft Punk aren't just anyone either!).
People bought RAM for the "happy/clappy" Get Lucky and then fell on a totally different conceptual album. There was a lot of debate about it, but it remained a huge success - backed up by perfect marketing, needless to say... |
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Dye
Correspondent & Expert
Joined: 16 Nov 2003
Posts: 5146
Location: Planet Home; Buenos Aires, Argentina
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| Posted: Wed Aug 27, 2014 15:27 |
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| Zsoma wrote: |
Again, let's not use ROTSC or TWM for the comparison since that was a completely different band and we have different ingredients to cook with (no question both albums are masterpieces).
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I used TROTSC as an example of the complexity on the structure of the songs. I could've used an album from another band as an example, but the point is the same. Their current approach to the songwriting is a lot more simplistic, except for something like Hey Floyd. |
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Javis
Joined: 31 Oct 2006
Posts: 1530
Location: Córdoba, Argentina
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| Posted: Wed Aug 27, 2014 15:54 |
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I´ve been reading a lot of negative comments about RDLS here, and I just wanted to point out that the songs that didin´t make in the regular album (like smile and hang it over) should have been there because they were among the best songs they recorded on that session... and we know there were other songs that they recorded that never surfaced, so I think the problem with the album was a really bad choise of songs for the album and singles (BLUE SKIES?? WTF!! that songs shouldn't be even in any jamiroquai album!) |
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Trolll
Joined: 27 May 2002
Posts: 335
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| Posted: Wed Aug 27, 2014 16:30 |
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Javis, I was about to joke about the fact that they released Blue Skies so that they could also release the won-der-ful remixes that came with it... but upon checking on Youtube, I see that the "Flux Pavilion" remix got over 3 million view... so I guess I'll just shut up...
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