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New Album "Automaton" Coming on 31 March 2017
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Curry



Joined: 19 Mar 2013
Posts: 184
Location: Arizona, USA


PostPosted: Wed Aug 27, 2014 17:02    Reply with quote


Trolll wrote:

I see the pigeonhole point, but I would rather follow Sony on there. Jamiroquai are famous for party/disco/groovy songs and it just works that way.


Jamiroquai didn't start out with party/disco songs. That's why it's wrong to assume they're that way now. The "love" of that genre doesn't match what they produce.

Jamiroquai's sound was a straight throwback to 70's fusion jazz. Their sound was more eclectic than "disco/party." Sony turned their image into "disco/party" after fighting with Jay over his own sound. You can hear the clear difference between the first and the third albums. Travelling Without Moving was the definite start of Sony's transition for Jamiroquai from fusion jazz/chill/political awareness songs, to mainstream pop hits. By the time Synkronized came out, they went full on club/house music. Same with A Funk Odyssey.

Should those two albums correlate with his drug addiction?

Using my analogy for a quality product, I'd say that the cupcake theory is more likely a miss than a hit.

Reason being is because a cupcake's ingredients can differ regardless of it being the same flavor, as well as the quality. In Jamiroquai's instance, they started out with a cupcake made with all organic ingredients. People really loved this cupcake because they knew it stood for something. The original backers of their store was bought out by a bigger company that liked the creativity behind Jamiroquai's cupcakes and decided to hold them to a 10 year contract where they would have to produce more cupcakes with the ingredients they would give to them.

Jamiroquai didn't like this because those ingredients were not organic. It tainted the taste and quality of their product. So the company decided to pressure them. They gave them a budget and a "yes" man as a go-between to help production sales.

The sales proved successful. The store generated some acclaim for their commercials, and sales went through the roof. However it was due to those commercials, not the cupcakes, that got them their "new fame" regardless of their start.

And due to that, people who've been with them since their early years seem to be confused as to why they can't go back to where they once where. They loved those organic cupcakes. They were very flavorful and it meant a lot to them, whereas those who ate up the commercials rely on them to tell them that cupcakes are good.

I get that a single is the singular point between a person and their decision to buy the album. The cupcake in my example is not the single, it's the album itself. Those commercials would be that single. The thing that razzle dazzles them into believing a fake cupcake is the best cupcake in the world.

Organic versus chemical ingredients. This is what effected Jamiroquai's albums.

Daft Punk's success is mainly due to the fact that they produce house music. Plain and simple. They started that way and they're going to keep going in that direction.

Jamiroquai is not Daft Punk. So let's not treat them as though they share the same pedestal when they're both different genres of music. Your mistake is that you're treating them like they're the same.

Jay Kay may like house music, but house music isn't what he's about. And when people expect him to produce another Funk Odyssey or Synkronized, it leads me to believe that you'd sooner have them be something else than what they want to be.
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Trolll



Joined: 27 May 2002
Posts: 335


PostPosted: Wed Aug 27, 2014 18:10    Reply with quote


I guess the misunderstanding comes from the fact that I'm not talking about the quality of the albums, nor about what I like or not. I'm considering sales, popularity and what they're famous for.

Keeping up with your "organic" vs "industrial" idea, I'd say that history will remember the organic stuff, but that their money comes from the "industrial" side. Sony might have "denatured" them but they became superstars all over the world, with all the advantages and drawbacks that go along with that.

Hadn't they signed with Sony, they'd be the Brand New Heavies (no offense, I just love the BNH and go to see them live whenever I can), a good band with a "niche" audience. I'm not saying that's a bad option at all! BNH are still around, still grooving, having fun and making a living out of it... but I don't think they have 10 Ferrari's sitting in the garage.
Once again, Jamiroquai and Sony went for the big thing, for better or worse.

Now regarding the Daft Punk analogy, I don't know if you're referring to me, but I didn't compare Jamiroquai and Daft Punk at all music-wise. Re-read my comment, I only say that "Get Lucky" was a great single, that led people to get interested in the RAM album, while the album itself was very different from the lead single. So that was a great marketing "coup". Without Get Lucky, the album would probably not have received all the highlights and attention it got. Daft Punk did their own "concept" album (cause, to me RAM is a concept album), very special and not necessarily tailored for a wide audience but they managed the marketing side perfectly (as usual) with a lot of teasing and a strong lead single. As I wrote, they "lured" people into the album.

Relating to Jamiroquai, I only meant that a band can release "THE" massive single that everyone expects and, inside the album, offer deeper and more personal work. You can combine both worlds.

Curry wrote:
Daft Punk's success is mainly due to the fact that they produce house music. Plain and simple. They started that way and they're going to keep going in that direction.


I'm sorry, but I can't even understand how you can say this (we're gonna turn this into a Daft Punk forum!).
Daft Punk released 4 studio albums (+Tron) and they're all TOTALLY different from one another. Each album has a different soul, theme and universe. Saying Daft Punk "keeps producing plain and simple house music" (OK, I do rewrite your words a bit) is just plain wrong. They sure can afford to, but Daft Punk take risks with each of their albums. Sometimes it works (Random Access Memories), sometimes much less (Human After All, or the movie Electroma), but each album boldly steps towards one consistent direction. They do reinvent their style every time.

Jamiroquai are a "grown-up" band, they have their freedom, they don't have their hands tied, they're still famous, they have the means, so they can do whatever they want... if they want! Wink
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HoneyBee



Joined: 21 Jul 2010
Posts: 673


PostPosted: Thu Aug 28, 2014 00:45    Reply with quote


Of course
Jamiroquai can produce a critically- acclaimed album.
Jamiroquai can be popular again.
but that shouldn't be their preoccupation while writing! Laughing

Jamiroquai can make Disco, electronic, or organic music,
or whatever the f*ck they want to make.

It just has to come from the heart and it will be good.
Because that is the essence of who they are. anybody is.
And it can innovate the previous music.

I don't want a "samesies" album.


Remember "Here, My Dear", by Marvin Gaye?
was not critically-acclaimed at the time. But today it is.
who really cares what the critics think anyways? you either like it or you don't
(of course it does have some influence on radio airplay)
But to sit back an analyze whether they can be popular again is hilarious to me!

Think outside the box.
Don't follow the pack.
Be open-minded.

This is what I see in Nile Rodgers.
I'll bet he doesn't sit around worrying about what people think, he just produces what he wants. He produces with a bunch of different people.
He doesn't limit himself.
he innovates and sets the standard. and he is good.
he leaves, and he comes back.

I just want Jamiroquai to do something when they're ready.
but sooner would be nice. Smile
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smellbob



Joined: 25 Feb 2002
Posts: 388
Location: Los Angeles, Ca


PostPosted: Thu Aug 28, 2014 04:27    Reply with quote


Curry wrote:
Jamiroquai didn't start out with party/disco songs. That's why it's wrong to assume they're that way now. The "love" of that genre doesn't match what they produce.

Jamiroquai's sound was a straight throwback to 70's fusion jazz. Their sound was more eclectic than "disco/party." Sony turned their image into "disco/party" after fighting with Jay over his own sound. You can hear the clear difference between the first and the third albums. Travelling Without Moving was the definite start of Sony's transition for Jamiroquai from fusion jazz/chill/political awareness songs, to mainstream pop hits. By the time Synkronized came out, they went full on club/house music. Same with A Funk Odyssey.


It's called being a musician. If you want to stick to one style, go listen to heavy metal music they never transition in anything else.

You name me one artist who stayed consistent with their original sound.

A perfect example is Maroon 5, they started of as an alternative rock garbage band, now their style is very much r&b hip hop house themed.

And here's some info for you.

Jamiroquai got some of its roots from when Jay in his teenagers years travelled and lived with someone who he assumed was his father in Portugal, Asia and Africa and all those regions produce diverse music style from native music, reggae, to calypso, to the tribal sounds.

Jay's mother was a jazz, disco singer so that's where he gets his inspiration from.

In the United States, due to the more rare groove funky, not quite pop, not quite rock. If it isn't rock, it's r&b so that's how they got an r&b label style to Americans and some people in England.

And Jay gave up on the political aspects shortly after EOPE productions. He was just getting into knowing more about his race and culture and the whole point of an artist is to pay the bills and those types of songs just weren't doing it in the early 90s.

With Synkronized and onward, They still had to keep a pop tinge to their original non marketable acid jazz sound. So that forms out a disco r&b, house, sound. Whether you want to like it or not.

Quote:
Jamiroquai is not Daft Punk. So let's not treat them as though they share the same pedestal when they're both different genres of music. Your mistake is that you're treating them like they're the same.

Jay Kay may like house music, but house music isn't what he's about. And when people expect him to produce another Funk Odyssey or Synkronized, it leads me to believe that you'd sooner have them be something else than what they want to be.


You're right, they are not Daft Punk. Whom I like maybe three songs by.

But what's wrong with them sounding like that. I happen to like house music and if you don't, well listen to the songs which feature less of a house vibe to it.

Point blank, house and r&b, and jazz, and disco, and funk are all related and you just have to realize that. All these genres started by African people so they are all connected.
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Curry



Joined: 19 Mar 2013
Posts: 184
Location: Arizona, USA


PostPosted: Thu Aug 28, 2014 04:57    Reply with quote


smellbob wrote:

It's called being a musician. If you want to stick to one style, go listen to heavy metal music they never transition in anything else.

You name me one artist who stayed consistent with their original sound.


This isn't about sticking to one style, it's about sticking to who you are versus industry initiative. You missed that point.


smellbob wrote:
A perfect example is Maroon 5, they started of as an alternative rock garbage band, now their style is very much r&b hip hop house themed.


After their first album, they got the same treatment as all other up & coming artists. The industry "refined" them to a more standard sound. Standard meaning they put you in a category they can easily define and market. That's how they make you a cash cow.

smellbob wrote:
Jamiroquai got some of its roots from when Jay in his teenagers years travelled and lived with someone who he assumed was his father in Portugal, Asia and Africa and all those regions produce diverse music style from native music, reggae, to calypso, to the tribal sounds.


Proof? Because last I checked Jay didn't meet his father till he was an adult. I distinctly remember Jay mentioning that he was with a friend who'd let him listen to his record collection and that brought out the "black man" in him. (Jay's words from an interview back in probably '92). Also, how the heck would he manage to go all those countries when he was broke and squatting about with odd jobs here and there?

smellbob wrote:
Jay's mother was a jazz, disco singer so that's where he gets his inspiration from.


She was a jazz singer. Nothing about her profile or interviews said she sang disco songs.

smellbob wrote:
And Jay gave up on the political aspects shortly after EOPE productions. He was just getting into knowing more about his race and culture and the whole point of an artist is to pay the bills and those types of songs just weren't doing it in the early 90s.


His race and culture has nothing to do with his political views. So please explain Black Crow, World He Wants, Virtual Insanity, and Manifest Destiny if he gave up on his views?

His first hit single was Emergency on Planet Earth back in '92.


smellbob...don't toss BS my way. Rolling Eyes
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Curry



Joined: 19 Mar 2013
Posts: 184
Location: Arizona, USA


PostPosted: Thu Aug 28, 2014 05:24    Reply with quote


Trolll wrote:
I guess the misunderstanding comes from the fact that I'm not talking about the quality of the albums, nor about what I like or not. I'm considering sales, popularity and what they're famous for.


Then that would be for different things, wouldn't it? Their first hit was based off of that organic ideology, while their later hits was based off an effort to get them into the club/pop scene. Therefore you can't brush off earlier Jamiroquai success even if you really liked that club part of them. One is just as famous as the other.

Trolll wrote:
Keeping up with your "organic" vs "industrial" idea, I'd say that history will remember the organic stuff, but that their money comes from the "industrial" side. Sony might have "denatured" them but they became superstars all over the world, with all the advantages and drawbacks that go along with that.


True. That was the purpose of the analogy. It showed that while one was favored for it's roots, the other side was favored for how much money could have been made...even though the roots/flavor were fading.

Trolll wrote:
Hadn't they signed with Sony, they'd be the Brand New Heavies (no offense, I just love the BNH and go to see them live whenever I can), a good band with a "niche" audience. I'm not saying that's a bad option at all! BNH are still around, still grooving, having fun and making a living out of it... but I don't think they have 10 Ferrari's sitting in the garage.
Once again, Jamiroquai and Sony went for the big thing, for better or worse.


Well it does take two, but I don't think Jamiroquai (or any other band for that matter) was prepared for what the record company had in store for them.

Now since I don't have a time machine, I don't know how Jamiroquai would have faired if they kept their relationship with Acid Jazz. I'm actually very curious to find out what would happen if they signed back up with them! But, I know all too well that Jay is too deep into the fame to go back. All we can do is wonder. However I know they wouldn't be the second-coming of the BNH. Laughing

Trolll wrote:
Now regarding the Daft Punk analogy, I don't know if you're referring to me, but I didn't compare Jamiroquai and Daft Punk at all music-wise. Re-read my comment, I only say that "Get Lucky" was a great single, that led people to get interested in the RAM album, while the album itself was very different from the lead single. So that was a great marketing "coup". Without Get Lucky, the album would probably not have received all the highlights and attention it got. Daft Punk did their own "concept" album (cause, to me RAM is a concept album), very special and not necessarily tailored for a wide audience but they managed the marketing side perfectly (as usual) with a lot of teasing and a strong lead single. As I wrote, they "lured" people into the album.


I mentioned it that way because I kept getting the impression that while we're bringing up Daft Punk (not just you, but others) as an example of what the marketing team for Jay can do, I also feel as though we shouldn't compare oranges to apples, even if they can both make a person dance.

I get the marketing behind it. I'm not blind, I also found it to be a pretty good tact. Get Lucky has no actual video, just a commercial. And that commercial could be played on loop to the point where it's an effective video. However the airtime that song got also counted. So when it comes to a case like this, I'd like to pull the person responsible for marketing over and have a good talk about why they're not utilizing certain media to help with getting the songs out there.

Trolll wrote:
Relating to Jamiroquai, I only meant that a band can release "THE" massive single that everyone expects and, inside the album, offer deeper and more personal work. You can combine both worlds.


No complaints here.

Curry wrote:
Daft Punk's success is mainly due to the fact that they produce house music. Plain and simple. They started that way and they're going to keep going in that direction.


Trolll wrote:
I'm sorry, but I can't even understand how you can say this (we're gonna turn this into a Daft Punk forum!).

... Saying Daft Punk "keeps producing plain and simple house music" (OK, I do rewrite your words a bit) is just plain wrong.


You misunderstood what I said and I'll also explain more.

To say "plain and simple," isn't meant as a literal phrase where something is too plain and too simple. It's not a direct description of what they do. It's a saying to help emphasize a phrase. When I said they do house music, I meant that. I'm well aware of their work. I love Discovery. It's one of my favorites. I find myself wanting to do the robot everytime I hear Technologic. So it's not about how they produce their music. It was actually about how they're so consistent that you can actually say "yeah, those guys do house music."
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Trolll



Joined: 27 May 2002
Posts: 335


PostPosted: Thu Aug 28, 2014 09:16    Reply with quote


About the smellbob/curry conversation :

Regarding Karen Kay, if you Youtube her name, you'll find different kinds of music, not especially jazz. I actually just found this video:
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=rSgkE7RJoYE
I like it and, like the comments say, her son should cover it ! Wink
Overall, from what I just listened to, the first idea that came to my mind was "Abba-like" (but not the song linked above!)

About Jay's father and childhood, I always heard Curry's version, and not that he travelled around the world. He did travel with his mom when she was touring. And Jay indeed declared he had met his father as an adult, once he was already successful.
...However, upon reading Karen's Wikipedia page, it says "In 1983 her son Jason and stepfather Mervyn spent six months in Thailand." Maybe that's what Smellbob refers to...

...and the eco-friendly songs DID pay the bills in the early 90's since Sony offered Jay a 1 million pound deal over 8 albums (pretty much on the base of WYGL alone), and that the EOPE album was a storm all over Europe.


Now, on the rest of the conversation

In the end, I think we all feel frustrated...
- We (of course) would like to hear new material, but nothing comes up and there's not even a hint of communication
- We'd like them to do more personnal / ambitious stuff, but they don't
- We'd like them to be as successful as they once were, but they just seem to rely on past hits

Like Szoma (was it you?) wrote, Jay just seem to be enjoying his life and money and not working his arse off to make something incredible...
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iranterres



Joined: 02 Apr 2008
Posts: 422
Location: Brasil


PostPosted: Sat Aug 30, 2014 03:55    Reply with quote


I swore to myself to not talk about it again. But here we go.


I don't think RDLS is a bad album, it just doesn't feel coherent, seems like a bunch of songs that were made during different times all put together, you know...

The song selection was poor, indeed, WKR is the kind of song that does not age well, it sounded cheap to me at the very first time I've heard it. Blue skies sounds more like a B-side, no idea why they made it to singles.

Believe it or not, but the best possible choice so far (IMHO) would be Hang It Over, it may not be the best song in the album, but so far it has everything needed as a bait.

I will go back to the shadows again.
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HoneyBee



Joined: 21 Jul 2010
Posts: 673


PostPosted: Sat Aug 30, 2014 19:40    Reply with quote


iranterres wrote:

I will go back to the shadows again.

Laughing
Trollllll wrote:
Quote:
Regarding Karen Kay, if you Youtube her name, you'll find different kinds of music, not especially jazz. I actually just found this video:
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=rSgkE7RJoYE

I love this! She has a good voice!

And I ain't no Cash Cow to any group!
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Arnold



Joined: 11 Jun 2002
Posts: 15


PostPosted: Tue Sep 23, 2014 11:08    Reply with quote

My thoughts....
...let me finally also share some thoughts I have about all this.

I'm a fan since the early days (1992....), and I'm also eagerly waiting for some new tunes from our favourite band...like most of you out here seem to do Smile

Well, throughout most of the 90ties and early 00s, Jay (and of course all other band members involved) must have worked like machines. Especially Jay really took major risks on his health. And, he was on serious drugs throughout years.

When Jay - thank God - stopped doing drugs in the early 00s, it seems like there was also a major change through the bands music. During his drug years, it sounded very funky. Funny enough, Dynamite then sounded much more "clean". Confused

After the contract ending with Sony, and their long break, Jay maybe then thought: "now I have complete artistic freedom....I finally can do the music I like to make, without any Sony behind me".

However, somehow I believe that the whole setting for the production of RDLS didn't exactly turn out the way he/they wanted and thought it would be. It seems that he got very much dissappointed with the way their new record company did it, resulting in another long long break that we currently see. And, at least the record company might have lost a lot of money with them.

Anyway, I believe that in the end he does not care too much anymore. Maybe he is more happy nowadays, seeing that he survived his "celebrity" years without any drug overdose. He does not care too much anymore, what people, the press or "the public" thinks about him or not.

Although releasing hardly any new music so far, and with most of their charting sucess in the past, he seems to get even richer and richer in anyway by doing different business that we might not even know about (trading cars, houses, stocks, or whatever...).

And maybe, he/they would now only release new music when they absolutely are satisfied with it. No pressure like a record company track selection, just what they like.

And maybe even no matter if some of us would like it or not - let's start to accept it!
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John Doggett



Joined: 22 Jan 2010
Posts: 545
Location: France


PostPosted: Tue Sep 23, 2014 17:59    Reply with quote

Re: My thoughts....
Arnold wrote:
...let me finally also share some thoughts I have about all this.

I'm a fan since the early days (1992....), and I'm also eagerly waiting for some new tunes from our favourite band...like most of you out here seem to do Smile

(...)

And maybe, he/they would now only release new music when they absolutely are satisfied with it. No pressure like a record company track selection, just what they like.

And maybe even no matter if some of us would like it or not - let's start to accept it!


Great Post. You've been stealing my thought !
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Dye
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Joined: 16 Nov 2003
Posts: 5146
Location: Planet Home; Buenos Aires, Argentina


PostPosted: Wed Sep 24, 2014 16:35    Reply with quote


Even more so, if they are without pressure from a record company, they should be recording and doing whatever they want. And that's not the case either. So I don't think the record company pressure is why we're not having new music in almost 4 years.
Besides, they're still playing live. Is not like there's no movement at all. They're still active. I asked Sola if there was a new album in the near future, and he said he believes there will be but he couldn't give a date because "life gets in the way".
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Curry



Joined: 19 Mar 2013
Posts: 184
Location: Arizona, USA


PostPosted: Thu Sep 25, 2014 08:59    Reply with quote

Re: My thoughts....
Arnold wrote:
.
Maybe he is more happy nowadays, seeing that he survived his "celebrity" years without any drug overdose. He does not care too much anymore, what people, the press or "the public" thinks about him or not.

Although releasing hardly any new music so far, and with most of their charting sucess in the past, he seems to get even richer and richer in anyway by doing different business that we might not even know about (trading cars, houses, stocks, or whatever...).

And maybe, he/they would now only release new music when they absolutely are satisfied with it. No pressure like a record company track selection, just what they like.

And maybe even no matter if some of us would like it or not - let's start to accept it!


So being able to survive those "rockin celebrity" years is more important...

yeah, I can totally get behind that.

Sounds good to me.
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LLCoolJR
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Joined: 23 Aug 2004
Posts: 1431
Location: The Netherlands


PostPosted: Fri Oct 03, 2014 17:28    Reply with quote


According to Dutch radiostation 3FM (biggest station of the country, quite reliable aswell) Jamiroquai will be in studio again soon and will release a new album in 2015, with tour.
I don't know the source of the DJ.

Fingers crossed!
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Earni



Joined: 18 Jul 2011
Posts: 54


PostPosted: Sat Oct 04, 2014 14:00    Reply with quote


Hopefully that's true! Maybe we get an album in the near future, but I'm still a bit sceptic. We will see! Smile
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