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cheeeba lover
Joined: 08 Jun 2004
Posts: 753
Location: croatia
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 Posted: Fri Jul 08, 2005 08:00 |
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| Happy Dude wrote: |
Are you suggesting that these bombings are the work of Western governments in order to push Europe further into the war on terrorism??? Give me a break. |
thats extacly what i am ssuggestig,sooner or later but it will be very late,you will see that i was right,and last night when i posted this i watched a political proffesionals talking about this theory;
the oil reserves are getting low,and usa only has reserves foe the next 50 years;And do you know what the scientists have discovered??
that the oil wasnt made by dead dinosaurs and other organic beeins,the new theory is that oil is in the deep core of the earth and it was forever there and there are unlimited quantityis of it;but the oil companys that finance governments would wont this,would they???
people are mislead,and manipulated,in the first place americans and the ocober 11,its all fake and well constructed by the usa government!
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EvoV
Joined: 02 Dec 2003
Posts: 1421
Location: figueira da foz - Portugal
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| Posted: Fri Jul 08, 2005 10:20 |
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too many words , i don't have head to read 
i preffer to shot down!All that big leaders ,specialy this one
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Happy Dude
Joined: 04 Jun 2005
Posts: 28
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| Posted: Fri Jul 08, 2005 10:26 |
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| Quote: |
| erm, is this a talk about the london blasts or is this going to fester into a slinging match regarding political viewpoints? |
sorry i thought the 2 were related are they not?
| Quote: |
people are mislead,and manipulated,in the first place americans and the ocober 11,its all fake and well constructed by the usa government! |
my god I hope you are joking now  i have never heard something so ridiculous. And it's September 11 by the way. October 12 is when they blew up people in Bali while they were on holiday.
| Quote: |
too many words , i don't have head to read
i preffer to shot down!All that big leaders ,specialy this one |
yes of course well it's much easier to do that rather than having to use your own brain and THINK for a change.
HD |
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groovje
Joined: 29 Jun 2005
Posts: 18
Location: Germany
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| Posted: Fri Jul 08, 2005 10:35 |
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| cheeeba lover wrote: |
| Happy Dude wrote: |
Are you suggesting that these bombings are the work of Western governments in order to push Europe further into the war on terrorism??? Give me a break. |
thats extacly what i am ssuggestig,sooner or later but it will be very late,you will see that i was right,and last night when i posted this i watched a political proffesionals talking about this theory;
the oil reserves are getting low,and usa only has reserves foe the next 50 years;And do you know what the scientists have discovered??
that the oil wasnt made by dead dinosaurs and other organic beeins,the new theory is that oil is in the deep core of the earth and it was forever there and there are unlimited quantityis of it;but the oil companys that finance governments would wont this,would they???
people are mislead,and manipulated,in the first place americans and the ocober 11,its all fake and well constructed by the usa government! |
This is insane.
Just consider how "well" this strategy worked on the Spanish last year. Aznar got sacked immediately with the prospect of troops getting withdrawn from Iraq by Zapatero...
Blair is up to his knees involved in the war and couldn't possibly cancel the operation, but still the British people wouldn't raise in anger and claim revenge and press Blair to keep it going "now even more than ever". I think they all learned from what happened in the States (no offence, really!). I'm a political illiterate, but that much I can gather...
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Happy Dude
Joined: 04 Jun 2005
Posts: 28
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| Posted: Fri Jul 08, 2005 10:38 |
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This is insane.
Just consider how "well" this strategy worked on the Spanish last year. |
Agreed.
The change of government in Spain post-Madrid was a MAJOR sign of weakness.
HD |
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craKing
Joined: 07 Mar 2005
Posts: 172
Location: south africa
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| Posted: Fri Jul 08, 2005 10:46 |
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If I give my political opinion I know we're gona fight so I'm just gona steer clear of this thread!Peace!
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Saffy7
Moderator
Joined: 21 Feb 2005
Posts: 459
Location: Hereford, UK
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| Posted: Fri Jul 08, 2005 11:45 |
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My thoughts are with all of the families and friends of those who were killed and injured in yesterday's atrocity.
May those responsible be brought to justice very soon!
Claire.x.
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EvoV
Joined: 02 Dec 2003
Posts: 1421
Location: figueira da foz - Portugal
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| Posted: Fri Jul 08, 2005 12:17 |
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| Happy Dude wrote: |
| yes of course well it's much easier to do that rather than having to use your own brain and THINK for a change.HD |
the change is easy , is don't use petrol and use other energys that don't heart the mother earth.
I live in Portugal and i know that at least 2 persons already made cars that can drive with water,in place of fuel,genius like this i know that are lots of them in the world...but the question is : how many cars in the world can drive with water? 0
And why? Is very easy to find that awnser...just link all the ideias and you will find the awnser! There is one thing to you use ur brain.
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Happy Dude
Joined: 04 Jun 2005
Posts: 28
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| Posted: Fri Jul 08, 2005 12:40 |
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| Quote: |
the change is easy , is don't use petrol and use other energys that don't heart the mother earth.
I live in Portugal and i know that at least 2 persons already made cars that can drive with water,in place of fuel,genius like this i know that are lots of them in the world...but the question is : how many cars in the world can drive with water? 0
And why? Is very easy to find that awnser...just link all the ideias and you will find the awnser! There is one thing to you use ur brain. |
well that's all well and good, and I am all for clean energy, but tell me what this has got to do with TERRORISM???
And is that fresh water or salt water? Because if it was salt water then it would be genius. But I would rather ride a bike or walk than fill my car with fresh drinking water.
Bear in mind too that the people in London were using a clean mass-public transport system at the time they were disgustingly murdered. So again, I fail to see how water-powered cars are going to stop terrorism.
As for fossil fuels and global warming... consider this: global warming has been around before. Things get hot and things get cold. It might be of interest to you to research the The Medieval Warm Period.
Here's a place to start.
The MWP or was an unusually warm period in history lasting from about the 10th century to about the 14th century. We're talking 400 years there rather than 20 odd years of global warming in our time. Something to use your brain for again. 
HD. |
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cheeeba lover
Joined: 08 Jun 2004
Posts: 753
Location: croatia
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| Posted: Fri Jul 08, 2005 12:46 |
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nuff said...
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Serge
Joined: 24 Dec 2002
Posts: 373
Location: In my Mondy
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| Posted: Fri Jul 08, 2005 14:06 |
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All this is about OIL about as much as this site is about Jamiroquai, simple as that and I'm sorry but if you san't see that you're either incredibly simple or have overdosed on propaganda pills.
| Quote: |
| Mass murderer???? I really hope you are not referring to Bush. |
The one and only!
Bin Laden was helped by the US with his fight against thr Soviets. FACT.
The Taliban were helped by the US because it favoured THEM and THEIR agenda. FACT.
In 1979 "the largest covert operation in the history of the CIA" was launched in response to the Soviet invasion of Afghanistan in support of the pro-Communist government of Babrak Kamal.
With the active encouragement of the CIA and Pakistan's ISI [Inter Services Intelligence], who wanted to turn the Afghan jihad into a global war waged by all Muslim states against the Soviet Union, some 35,000 Muslim radicals from 40 Islamic countries joined Afghanistan's fight between 1982 and 1992. Eventually more than 100,000 foreign Muslim radicals were directly influenced by the Afghan jihad.
The Islamic "jihad" was supported by the United States and Saudi Arabia with a significant part of the funding generated from the Golden Crescent drug trade.
In March 1985, President Reagan signed National Security Decision Directive 166,...[which] authorised stepped-up covert military aid to the mujahideen, and it made clear that the Afghan war had a new goal: to defeat Soviet troops in Afghanistan through covert action and encourage a Soviet withdrawal. The new covert U.S. assistance began with a dramatic increase in arms supplies -- a steady rise to 65,000 tons annually by 1987, ... as well as a "ceaseless stream" of CIA and Pentagon specialists who traveled to the secret headquarters of Pakistan's ISI. There the CIA specialists met with Pakistani intelligence officers to help plan operations for the Afghan rebels. The Central Intelligence Agency (CIA) using Pakistan's military Inter-Services Intelligence (ISI) played a key role in training the Mujahideen. In turn, the CIA sponsored guerrilla training was integrated with the teachings of Islam
Motivated by nationalism and religious fervor, the Islamic warriors were unaware that they were fighting the Soviet Army on behalf of Uncle Sam.
In the wake of the Cold War, the Central Asian region is not only strategic for its extensive oil reserves, it also produces three quarters of the World's opium representing multibillion dollar revenues to business syndicates, financial institutions, intelligence agencies and organized crime. The annual proceeds of the Golden Crescent drug trade (between 100 and 200 billion dollars) represents approximately one third of the Worldwide annual turnover of drugs, estimated by the United Nations to be of the order of $500 billion.
The ISI's extensive intelligence military-network was not dismantled in the wake of the Cold War. The CIA continued to support the Islamic "jihad" out of Pakistan. New undercover initiatives were set in motion in Central Asia, the Caucasus and the Balkans. Pakistan's military and intelligence apparatus essentially "served as a catalyst for the disintegration of the Soviet Union and the emergence of six new Muslim republics in Central Asia."
Despite its anti-American ideology, Islamic fundamentalism was largely serving Washington's strategic interests in the former Soviet Union.
The Taliban
Backed by Pakistan's military intelligence (ISI) which in turn was controlled by the CIA, the Taliban Islamic State was largely serving American geopolitical interests. The Golden Crescent drug trade was also being used to finance and equip the Bosnian Muslim Army (starting in the early 1990s) and the Kosovo Liberation Army (KLA).
No doubt, this explains why Washington had closed its eyes on the reign of terror imposed by the Taliban including the blatant derogation of women's rights, the closing down of schools for girls, the dismissal of women employees from government offices and the enforcement of "the Sharia laws of punishment".
Since the Cold War era, Washington has consciously supported Osama bin Laden, while at same time placing him on the FBI's "most wanted list" as the World's foremost terrorist.
While the Mujahideen are busy fighting America's war in the Balkans and the former Soviet Union, the FBI --operating as a US based Police Force- is waging a domestic war against terrorism, operating in some respects independently of the CIA which has - since the Soviet-Afghan war-supported international terrorism through its covert operations.
Ironically, while the Islamic jihad-featured by the Bush Adminstration as "a threat to America"-is blamed for the terrorist assaults on the World Trade Centre and the Pentagon, these same Islamic organisations constitute a key instrument of US military-intelligence operations in the Balkans and the former Soviet Union.
The official American myth is that “everything changed” on the day four airliners were hijacked and nearly 5,000 people murdered. The US military intervention in Afghanistan, by this account, was hastily improvised in less than a month.
This is only one of countless lies emerging from the Pentagon and White House about the war against Afghanistan. The truth is that the US intervention was planned in detail and carefully prepared long before the terrorist attacks provided the pretext for setting it in motion.
A good read is a book called Bin Laden, the Forbidden Truth, written by Jean-Charles Brisard and Guillaume Dasquie. Brisard is a former French secret service agent, author of a previous report on bin Laden’s Al Qaeda network, and former director of strategy for the French corporation Vivendi, while Dasquie is an investigative journalist.
The two French authors write that the Bush administration was willing to accept the Taliban regime, despite the charges of sponsoring terrorism, if it cooperated with plans for the development of the oil resources of Central Asia.
They say, that until August 2001, the US government saw the Taliban “as a source of stability in Central Asia that would enable the construction of an oil pipeline across Central Asia.” It was only when the Taliban refused to accept US conditions that the US decided it would be easier to have complete control of the region, instead of relying on the Taliban to carry out the US agendas.
You should note the curious fact that neither the Clinton administration nor the Bush administration ever placed Afghanistan on the official State Department list of states charged with sponsoring terrorism, despite the acknowledged presence of Osama bin Laden as a guest of the Taliban regime. Such a designation would have made it impossible for an American oil or construction company to sign a deal with Kabul for a pipeline to the Central Asian oil and gas fields.
The US government had planned the war well in advance, but the shock of September 11 made it politically feasible to attack Afghanistan, by stupefying public opinion at home and giving Washington essential leverage on reluctant allies abroad.
Both the American public and dozens of foreign governments were stampeded into supporting military action against Afghanistan, in the name of the fight against terrorism. The Bush administration targeted Kabul without presenting any evidence that either bin Laden or the Taliban regime was responsible for the World Trade Center atrocity. It seized on September 11 as the occasion for advancing longstanding ambitions to assert American power in Central Asia.
This is not to say that the American government deliberately planned every detail of the terrorist attacks or anticipated that nearly 5,000 people would be killed. But the least likely explanation of September 11 is the official one: that dozens of Islamic fundamentalists, many with known ties to Osama bin Laden, were able to carry out a wide-ranging conspiracy on three continents, targeting the most prominent symbols of American power, without any US intelligence agency having the slightest idea of what they were doing.
Make no mistake, this is about a group of rich, greedy, corrupt men (I refuse to call it a government since it wasn’t even elected on a popular majority) wanting to line their pockets before they die. I know someone that is serving in the Royal Navy and was stationed near Iraq. Its strange how the Allied forces are in Iraq to carry out a regime change while all he saw was an endless line of oil tankers heading into an Iraqi port, and then leaving in a similar endless line all the way to the horizon.
Its strange how the US fails to find any problems with Afghanistan as long as the Taliban are willing to let the US lay oil pipes from it, yet the moment the talks stall, we conveniently have 9-11 and a reason (or an excuse?) to invade Afghanistan and take control over its oil and drug supplies.
Its strange how over at Gleneagles, the G8 is trying to do so much good for the world, while this happens. What a perfect reason (or an excuse?) this is to continue with the War of Taking Control of the World, err sorry, The War Against Terror (T.W.A.T)
“This is a war on terror for us all. I was most impressed by the resolve of all the leaders. We will not yield to these people. We will find them, we will bring them to justice and at the same time we will spread an ideology of hope and compassion that will overwhelm their ideology of hate.” - GW Bush
Sources:
http://www.wsws.org/articles/2001/nov2001/afgh-n20.shtml
http://uuhome.de/global/english/binladen.html Who Is Osama Bin Laden?
by Michel Chossudovsky
Professor of Economics, University of Ottawa, Centre for Research on Globalisation (CRG), Montréal
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funkynic
Joined: 13 Feb 2005
Posts: 398
Location: Buenos Aires Funkcity!
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| Posted: Fri Jul 08, 2005 15:13 |
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| Happy Dude wrote: |
| funkynic wrote: |
| The thing is that because of that the world today is a complete mess. The american goverment created something they didn´t know how to treat and now not only their people are suffering it, but all their political friends are... today, unfortunately, was Londons time, nobody knows when or where they´ll strike then. And the saddest thing is that there seems to be no solution to this... |
I think to label OBL as a creation of the US Government is inaccurate and unfair. I am not going to deny that the US assisted in the fight against the Soviet communist invasion, but i don't see how this could create the religious fanatic that OBL is today. But, I am open to your opinion if you would like to elaborate and justify your claim.
HD |
OBL and all the muslam people have always been as fanatic as they are today. I lived in Saudi Arabia for a year and a half, because of my fathers work and I can tell you that all of them are so fanatic of their religion. Almost every two to five hours (I don´t remember well) the whole country woould stop to pray and this special palice called Matawas go out and make shure everyone is praying, If not they can beat you take you to jail or whatever they want. People from muslam religion live life acording to what their bible ( the Coran) says, and they don´t care about anything else. I have these eductaion books where they would show an arab men all clean and tidy putting the garbage awayv in the trash, and then this, let´s say, "not arab guy" all dirty throwing the garbage anywere in the street. A friend of my father had an acciden driving at night... on a dark road a camel came across and he crashed into it and guess who´s fault was it... my fathers friend, they said the camel was innocent!!!!
So as you can see, they are totally insane about their religion... it´s very said but we can´t do nothing about it.
funkynic
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Jamirobeto
Joined: 30 Oct 2004
Posts: 258
Location: Lima, Peru
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| Posted: Fri Jul 08, 2005 18:54 |
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In the first place I'm glad everyone here's alright... I couldnt write before because I was a little busy.. but my thoughts have been on the people of London...
Terrorism it's an interesting phenomenom that we peruvians know very well... we lived 20 years with terrorism feeling the same things that londoners felt... and 1st world countries fear... that nowhere is safe and this can happen to anyone, anywhere. The terrorist group that attacked us was named Sendero Luminoso and they seeked to destroy our society to create a new one... they started in the mountains and then took their war to the cities... our leaders in the beginig said it was nothing but then when it became bigger they started sendig troops to the mountains... they were killed... after this they kept sending our young people to die in horrible ways there... people in the cities felt sure but that didn't last long... sendero luminoso attacked the heart of our city Lima and blew up a building in the zone where rich people lived... panic everywhere... this was in the 80s...
I think it has similarities with the things happening in our world... we learned many things from these... one of those is not to generalize... not every terrorist was a fanatic some of them made it for fear... others because they believed in the cause... and the leaders.... they expected a profit and had businness with the mafia.
Our soldiers were of no use in this conflict... the inteligence system is the basic to counter terrorism... that's how we managed to capture their leader without a fight... no need for stupid wars... and whoever says the leaders have no part of guilt here is wrong... this is not the first time there's terrorism in the world... 3rd world countries have suffered these... if Bush would really want to counter it he would come here and learn something from our experience or perhaps he is too proud or stubborn to do that
| Quote: |
| all the muslam people have always been as fanatic as they are today |
Nah I dont think so... in Jordania for example not everyone stops to pray... don't generalize... and plus... that doesn't make them fanatics ... fanatism is the extreme of believe... they can be believers the same way people in the western cpuntries believe that freedom is good... it has always been like that... the west prefers freedom over equality and the east equality over freedom... i know that's a very simple explanation but it kinda gives you an idea
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funkynic
Joined: 13 Feb 2005
Posts: 398
Location: Buenos Aires Funkcity!
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| Posted: Fri Jul 08, 2005 19:45 |
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Jordanias situation is totally diffrent. For you to have an idea you can go on vacations there. In arabia, instead you can´t get in the country unless it´s to work. My mum had to throw away all her lipstics because they contained pig fat. In arabia it´s full of cats, dogs are killed, do you know why? buecause a dog pissed on Maomas tomb (I mean how the f*ck could the dog know about that?)Also, ladies can´t take that black long dress they HAVE TO use not eaven for givin birth!!!
Wtf men that ain´t being extremely fanatic of their religion? I mean Im not mad at you beto but being a fanatic muslam is not only killing yourself on your "war for peace", "peacefull war" or whatever they call that insane act of destroying themselves to destroy their enemys.
By the way... great post Serge!!!
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fUnK[iLo]
Joined: 05 Feb 2005
Posts: 472
Location: La Plata, Buenos Aires, Argentina
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| Posted: Fri Jul 08, 2005 22:44 |
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My condolences to all Londoners. Thankfully the ones I know from here are all right  And regarding politics, all I have to say is that what you give is what you get... But of course, innocents are the ones who always suffer 
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