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mr.az
Joined: 01 Sep 2005
Posts: 2421
Location: rallying
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 Posted: Mon Oct 17, 2005 18:18 |
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| FRA wrote: |
jamirocheese wrote:
I've still to understand which is my role.....  |
me too 
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Jamirobeto
Joined: 30 Oct 2004
Posts: 258
Location: Lima, Peru
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| Posted: Tue Oct 18, 2005 04:17 |
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mmmm VERY interesting topic. i had my times of thinking about this stuff but no more i tend to agree with the big bang theory and i call the thing that caused the big bang, God. and this god is still around and everywhere this belief is not in conflict with what the church says or anything. the church is strong here in peru but i really dont care what they say right now but i must say that they have made many great things for the poor without getting credit for it. i dont have the qoute from the bible right now but somewhere it says that there's no faith without action and i believe that's what really matters, the actions we take. whether jesus is god's son or god himself... well.. how can someone possibly know?? what he said couldve been misunderstood... but what jesus taught that's what really matters.
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I think that the reason is not the same for everybody: wot about unlucky ppl who doesn't have a big house, a family, cannot study or work?
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that's a consequence of capitalism... we're defined by the actions the ones before made and the objective for these people is to get something better for their children if not for them.
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we are here for the same reason: born, study, have a big house, have a family, get older, and then die... you must say: what's this idiot talking about?, but if you see the real world, that's the main purpose of the people about being here...
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not really... there are people with other objectives... myself i may sound like an ancient greek but i want my name to be remembered for centuries. and in order to do that i want to do something extraordinary in my life.
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Jaminneapolis
Joined: 22 Feb 2004
Posts: 822
Location: Minneapolis, MN U.S.A.
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| Posted: Tue Oct 18, 2005 07:52 |
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I fully believe in Evolution, but it does have one big big big big big flaw: Who/what laid the ground floor? Evolution can't explain that.
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PietroChocko
Joined: 02 Oct 2003
Posts: 676
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| Posted: Tue Oct 18, 2005 10:48 |
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| Jamirobeto wrote: |
| i dont have the qoute from the bible right now but somewhere it says that there's no faith without action and i believe that's what really matters, the actions we take. whether jesus is god's son or god himself... well.. how can someone possibly know?? what he said couldve been misunderstood... but what jesus taught that's what really matters. |
'faith without works is dead'. works = actions. |
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jamirokaki
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Joined: 29 Jan 2003
Posts: 3472
Location: basque country
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| Posted: Tue Oct 18, 2005 17:22 |
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| Diego// Twenty Zero Three wrote: |
Maybe there's a little bit of truth in everything you said. But for me, the whole "creation" thing is something beyond our comprehension and intelligence. We believe in a God because we need to believe that is someone or something out there watching and taking care of use, by praying. But then we find what FRA posted... so where's the God for those people?
I can't understand how the universe is infinite... if it is like that, there's no capable intelligence to understand how big everything is, and how many things must be out there.
D! (dyego) |
that's exactly the thing! people can't understand and invent Gods to explain the things, to got an answer, i can't either understand why all the things are there, but what we need to understand is that we are just another animal.theres no reason of having anyone taking care of us just because we have the capacity of believing on it (of creating it), and the same for just the opposite, just because we can't understand what infinite is, or lot of other things don't means it doesn't really exist...
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jamirokaki
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Joined: 29 Jan 2003
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Location: basque country
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| Posted: Tue Oct 18, 2005 17:41 |
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| but what jesus taught that's what really matters |
and what about what Brian said???? let's follow the shoe!
well, i don't think nobody got what that Jesus said in CD or MD so it can always be changed, but who cares what a man said? you have to do what you have to do, you are a human, the most powerfull animal in this planet, able to do the best and the worst things, you have the choice, my choice is to to the right things for me and for the others, and for the planet itslef (you can call that how you want, or said you do because any reason, god, values or whatever) but the action of being a "good"does not have nothing to do with god or with believing, just with being conscient.
the way of being should come from inside you, if you want to do the right things do them, but not because if you don't do them you will go to the hell, or bacause anyone have said....
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| not really... there are people with other objectives... myself i may sound like an ancient greek but i want my name to be remembered for centuries. and in order to do that i want to do something extraordinary in my life. |
that's one of the main reasons believe in god, because they can't think our lif eis just this, around 70 years of being here and then it's finished, everyone want to live forever so they choose to believe on that thing offering it.
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| I fully believe in Evolution, but it does have one big big big big big flaw: Who/what laid the ground floor? Evolution can't explain that. |
what ground floor do you mean? why evolution exists, why species change with the time?.....evolution can explain the mechanism of live evolution since the life is life, since the first procariote cell, not how this first life was created......because science can't still understand/explain this, but neither the religion does, it doens't explains how is it neither, only with tales, without a base.
****thanks father pietro for all your wise arguments****
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Dye
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Joined: 16 Nov 2003
Posts: 5146
Location: Planet Home; Buenos Aires, Argentina
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| Posted: Tue Oct 18, 2005 17:49 |
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| Jaminneapolis wrote: |
| I fully believe in Evolution, but it does have one big big big big big flaw: Who/what laid the ground floor? Evolution can't explain that. |
If by 'ground floor' you mean the Earth... that's pretty much the same question of how was everything created. Evolution seem a credible explanation for all the species, but it's contradictory to the 'Adan' and 'Eva' story, which I don't believe, sorry. Is hard to believe.
OK, why are we here... to do the things you want to do. But perhaps the correct question should be 'HOW are we here?'
Let's not forget, this is a difficult thing, scientists can't even explain this.
D! (dyego) |
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Guaicaipuro The Iroquoi
Joined: 20 Sep 2005
Posts: 43
Location: Ven CCS Good vibe zone
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| Posted: Tue Oct 18, 2005 20:10 |
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let me tell you diego that adan and eva story is just a ( i dont know the word in english) metafora to tell what happened at the beggin of the world but that doesnt mean that there is no god , and i still think that we are here because of god we not just believe in him he camed here 2000 years ago as a man
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Jaminneapolis
Joined: 22 Feb 2004
Posts: 822
Location: Minneapolis, MN U.S.A.
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| Posted: Wed Oct 19, 2005 07:53 |
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Diego and Kaki,
What I mean by ground floor, is if you say atoms lead to amino acids which lead to cells which lead to etc. etc. etc. (That sequence might have been very out of order) that is evolution. But Who or what put the atoms there? That is the "ground floor". The "Ground Floor" is what sets evolution in motion, but Evolution can't explain the ground floor, or how it got there. That's deep... I think... Im not even sure if I just undertsood what I said lol. Peace!
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Jamirobeto
Joined: 30 Oct 2004
Posts: 258
Location: Lima, Peru
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| Posted: Thu Oct 20, 2005 01:36 |
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Quote:
but what jesus taught that's what really matters
and what about what Brian said???? let's follow the shoe!
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you misunderstood what i meant... i was refering to the catholics... these guys believe blindly in the church and as you say they could have (and possibly have) made some "new rules".... that's why i said actions are important and in the end that's what defines you as good or bad for your society.
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| but who cares what a man said? you have to do what you have to do |
come on, sure you can do better than that. if no one cares what a man said then don't listen to the ones with more expirience than you and do as you feel. don't take jesus so lightly he wasn't talking shit and his teachings have made a lot of good to the world. plus, he isn't completely original he probably took elements from Plato and others so there's a history of thinkig of many smart guys before him. i'm not saying people should follow him blindly but i consider very stupid to refuse to consider at least some knowledge that ancient people have and have your own opinion if it is useful to you or not.
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Evolution seem a credible explanation for all the species, but it's contradictory to the 'Adan' and 'Eva' story, which I don't believe, sorry. Is hard to believe.
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dont worry man not even the pope believes it... the church has already accepted that it's only a tale.
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Gonza-Arg
Joined: 27 Mar 2005
Posts: 1680
Location: Argentina
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| Posted: Thu Oct 20, 2005 03:26 |
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Hi
Interesting topic.
Well, I had nights with the same questions, I think everybody had.
The more exasperating thing is that if someday we know who created everything then we would ask: "And what happend before that?", and I think that's impossible to know for us 
I think that there is something like a God, but I don't believe in everything that The Holy Bible says, because, for example, I don't think that we have to be good people just for not to go to hell, coz that is like being good for money. I think that we have to be good beacuse that way we'll feel satisfied with ourselves, etc.
I believe in God but just because I need to.
I think that there is no plan for all of us. We plan our lives since we are born, and that's the plan. I think we make our destiny day by day. There isn't a written future, that's what I'm trying to say (Like the "Doc" said in "Back to the Future 3"  ).
The plan is to be happy. Happiness is the final purpose of every decision we make in life .
Goodbye everybody, and sorry for my english  |
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PietroChocko
Joined: 02 Oct 2003
Posts: 676
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| Posted: Thu Oct 20, 2005 07:23 |
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| jamirokaki wrote: |
| ****thanks father pietro for all your wise arguments**** |
hrm yes quite. the smell of cynacism wofts through the air after that comment. but i am always right. just ask catman. |
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jamirokaki
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Joined: 29 Jan 2003
Posts: 3472
Location: basque country
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| Posted: Thu Oct 20, 2005 23:44 |
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| Quote: |
Quote:
Quote:
but what jesus taught that's what really matters
and what about what Brian said???? let's follow the shoe!
you misunderstood what i meant... i was refering to the catholics... these guys believe blindly in the church and as you say they could have (and possibly have) made some "new rules".... that's why i said actions are important and in the end that's what defines you as good or bad for your society.
Quote:
but who cares what a man said? you have to do what you have to do
come on, sure you can do better than that. if no one cares what a man said then don't listen to the ones with more expirience than you and do as you feel. don't take jesus so lightly he wasn't talking shit and his teachings have made a lot of good to the world. plus, he isn't completely original he probably took elements from Plato and others so there's a history of thinkig of many smart guys before him. i'm not saying people should follow him blindly but i consider very stupid to refuse to consider at least some knowledge that ancient people have and have your own opinion if it is useful to you or not.
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yes, you're right. we all must learn from wises.
i just want to say that lot of people only see right what jesus or the church says, think that is the only way.
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jamirokaki
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Joined: 29 Jan 2003
Posts: 3472
Location: basque country
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| Posted: Thu Oct 20, 2005 23:51 |
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| PietroChocko wrote: |
| jamirokaki wrote: |
| ****thanks father pietro for all your wise arguments**** |
hrm yes quite. the smell of cynacism wofts through the air after that comment. but i am always right. just ask catman. |
if at least this was useful to learn english words...but "cynacism" and "wofts" don't neither appear in the dicctionay........
but you may be smelling your moustache.
Anyway....still giving good arguments......
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PietroChocko
Joined: 02 Oct 2003
Posts: 676
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| Posted: Sat Oct 22, 2005 02:53 |
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| jamirokaki wrote: |
| PietroChocko wrote: |
| jamirokaki wrote: |
| ****thanks father pietro for all your wise arguments**** |
hrm yes quite. the smell of cynacism wofts through the air after that comment. but i am always right. just ask catman. |
if at least this was useful to learn english words...but "cynacism" and "wofts" don't neither appear in the dicctionay........
but you may be smelling your moustache.
Anyway....still giving good arguments...... |
dude look up 'cynic' or 'cynical' or 'woft' and you will find the full meaning, if you have a dictionary. |
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