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Cheeba vibe
Joined: 23 Jan 2006
Posts: 140
Location: Florence Italy
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 Posted: Tue Jan 24, 2006 16:02 |
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Rob Harris: the minus one
...I think that Rob has contributed negatively to the compositive aspect of the band. Too much rock, too much... strange, too much far away from the old acid jazz vibes. What do you think about? |
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CosmicMouse
Jamirotalk mum
Joined: 10 Feb 2002
Posts: 4821
Location: Germany
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| Posted: Tue Jan 24, 2006 16:31 |
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It may be true that the style is different today, but I doubt that it has something to do with Rob or other "new" bandmembers!
When we met Rob backstage we talked about this for some time and he said a few times that even if Jamiroquai would have Stu, Toby or other former bandmembers aboard, the sound today would still be like it is now.
A fact is: As soon as a song in progress sounds a bit similar to old songs or styles of Jamiroquai - as soon as Jay has the feeling "oh, we have done something like this before" then he throws the whole song into disarray and starts it new and different. Jay doesn't want to produce "something like..."
And I think that is good!
I wished the fans would finally stop to cling on the past and would be more assertive and appreciative. 
Mouse
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Spanish Cozmik Girl
Joined: 16 Apr 2003
Posts: 542
Location: Gran Canaria, Spain
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| Posted: Tue Jan 24, 2006 16:56 |
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| CosmicMouse wrote: |
It may be true that the style is different today, but I doubt that it has something to do with Rob or other "new" bandmembers!
When we met Rob backstage we talked about this for some time and he said a few times that even if Jamiroquai would have Stu, Toby or other former bandmembers aboard, the sound today would still be like it is now.
A fact is: As soon as a song in progress sounds a bit similar to old songs or styles of Jamiroquai - as soon as Jay has the feeling "oh, we have done something like this before" then he throws the whole song into disarray and starts it new and different. Jay doesn't want to produce "something like..."
And I think that is good!
I wished the fans would finally stop to cling on the past and would be more assertive and appreciative.
Mouse |
I totally agree with it
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jamirokaki
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Joined: 29 Jan 2003
Posts: 3472
Location: basque country
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| Posted: Tue Jan 24, 2006 20:05 |
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it can be part of true (it does, in fact) but it's also true what cheeba vibe says, it's clear that musicinas playing in jamiroquai give their style in some way (some more some less), but the rock/hard line taken last years (2001-2003 mostly) is direct representation of rob in the guitar playing, i'm 100% sure that if siomn katz wil still be part of jamiroquai the music evolution coulb be the same or close of what we got but the guitars would be more funky and acid jazzy and less rockers.
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FunkEducation
Joined: 15 Jul 2004
Posts: 3309
Location: Maracay, Venezuela
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| Posted: Tue Jan 24, 2006 21:24 |
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| CosmicMouse wrote: |
| When we met Rob backstage we talked about this for some time and he said a few times that even if Jamiroquai would have Stu, Toby or other former bandmembers aboard, the sound today would still be like it is now. |
nah i don't think so...
the old guys are more jazzy... and they would have maded something different for the band... they had in their time, some kind of control in the music too... but now Jay's directing all in "his" band... he does all... if he wants a bomb sound it is there... it is all his desition... and the old guys are masters next to this guys... they're cool... but... here they're... having loads of success in the charts 
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This is FunkEducation, supporting the 1992-1998 Jamiroquai!!
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Cheeba vibe
Joined: 23 Jan 2006
Posts: 140
Location: Florence Italy
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| Posted: Wed Jan 25, 2006 07:16 |
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honestly, I thought that someone killed me for this post. Instead, the critics have been constructive. I'm a little bit nostalgic, is true: in bottom I ask only for more...funky taste in guitar parts. |
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Spanish Cozmik Girl
Joined: 16 Apr 2003
Posts: 542
Location: Gran Canaria, Spain
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| Posted: Wed Jan 25, 2006 07:51 |
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rob and paul are rock musicians, aren't they? i guess it counts..
if they said that being toby or stu or the other members they would sound the same... maybe they're right and maybe they're wrong... maybe it's j's fault... anyway, i think changes are fine in some aspects.. i wouldn't like "repeated" albums, you know.. but i don't want rock music either....
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Cheeba vibe
Joined: 23 Jan 2006
Posts: 140
Location: Florence Italy
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| Posted: Wed Jan 25, 2006 08:16 |
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...let me know if you share this dream with me (is a crazy idea, I know...): how it would be to see Mr.Mark King (Level 42) playing with Jamiroquai? I guess that mr.Zender is gone forever (I miss him a lot!), but...try to image a fantastic bass player like Mark King playing "Mr.Moon"?  |
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jamirokaki
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Joined: 29 Jan 2003
Posts: 3472
Location: basque country
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| Posted: Wed Jan 25, 2006 09:47 |
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| FunkEducation wrote: |
| CosmicMouse wrote: |
| When we met Rob backstage we talked about this for some time and he said a few times that even if Jamiroquai would have Stu, Toby or other former bandmembers aboard, the sound today would still be like it is now. |
nah i don't think so...
the old guys are more jazzy... and they would have maded something different for the band... they had in their time, some kind of control in the music too... but now Jay's directing all in "his" band... he does all... if he wants a bomb sound it is there... it is all his desition... and the old guys are masters next to this guys... they're cool... but... here they're... having loads of success in the charts |
if that was true it will be the same if rob is in the guitar of it is simon of it is a guitarbox, but of course i'ts not true.
you are wrong
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deesh
Joined: 23 Feb 2002
Posts: 2717
Location: +001
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| Posted: Wed Jan 25, 2006 15:19 |
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this is a very interesting topic. when i listened to EOPE yesterday i thought how brilliant that album is. i just love it. anyway...
the only thing i really have to add is that i can't see the sound staying the same because jay likes to and wanted to experiment. i think regardless the sound would have evolved. whether it did for the negative or positive is up to personal opinion. however....
who is responsible for the computer generated sound that we heard on the 4th album that wasn't heavily present on the other 3? that wasn't any of the new guys.
next....i heard some stuff from zender and some stuff that toby was working on with other people and umm...those aren't exactly in the fashion of 'acid jazz' or 'earlier jamiroquai'. so who was to say if they were still in the band, that feel from the 90's would be there?
i'm not agreeing or disagreeing with anyone. personal opinions are good, but i am saying that the sound can't be pinned on one person and there is clear evidence of that.
plus, look how selfish and particular jay is about HIS music....if he didn't want the sound in there, i'm sure he'd have no problem voicing his opinion and deleting it. no problem at all!
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Cheeba vibe
Joined: 23 Jan 2006
Posts: 140
Location: Florence Italy
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| Posted: Wed Jan 25, 2006 16:21 |
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...ok ok, I'm an old nostalgic but...my critic to Rob was due to the fact that he COMPOSES in Jamiroquai, and this reflects unavoidablly on the quality of the songs, not on the sound.
The sound (I know this, I'm a musician..) obviously changes in function of the involved musicians.
But....it's not only "nostalgia": look and hear at the present. The return of Incognito, Paul Weller, other bands...everyone reflects the dear old days...nothing new under the sun, let's put a modern drum loop near a Rhodes chord and...voilà, it seems a wonderful new sound. I think that nothing has to be invented, in these days....(only rank-xeroxed at the best, eh eh  ) |
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deesh
Joined: 23 Feb 2002
Posts: 2717
Location: +001
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| Posted: Wed Jan 25, 2006 16:37 |
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word. i hear you...
what i don't understand is how you then explain the change that occured from the 3rd to the 4th album? to me (and this is only to me) if you listen to the first album and then the 4th, i'd never think they were the same band. how do you explain the lyrical format of the 4th album, the influence that the discovery of computers and computer programs had on the music? - the composing of the songs started to change then..for me anyway.
i can't see rob being the cause of that 'nostalgic feel' being obsolete. yes, he does have a rock vibe, but like i said..if jay didn't like it or want it, it'd be gone.
and about incognito....ehhhh..i've been listened VERY closely to them past and present lately. and i've noticed a bit of a difference from the earlier albums until the one that got released yesterday (in the US). they echo the 'dear old days', but they don't duplicate it, and they also experiment.
i understand what you are saying, but i just can't see pinpointing the composition of the band down to rob. but it's all good. we all have different ears and hear things in various ways |
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Jamirobeto
Joined: 30 Oct 2004
Posts: 258
Location: Lima, Peru
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| Posted: Thu Jan 26, 2006 02:13 |
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well... to start i dont like Rob at all (musically speaking) i think he's too over rated among some fans because of his solos. come on, if simon katz had been given the chance to make as many solos as Rob does he'd be better considered. People praise him because of Starchild... ehem... i dont think it's that difficult to copy Superstition. Rob is a good player but imho his contribution is far from positive. Stop dont panic, anyone? the most hated jamiroquai tune for many fans... he's in the credits and his guitar has a lot to do with the song.
About what he said, i dont think jamiroquai would have evolved this way if all the guys had stayed. let's make it clear Evolution is not the same as computers and simplification. the sound could have evolved in a million possible ways and still have the old vibe to get us hooked up. Now the old vibe is gone, Rob's influence is maybe one reason but there are many, and the sound has evolved in of the many possible ways. I still like Jamiroquai, this new school is far better than anything on the radio but i'm now looking for the new band that will wear the crown in the funky world.
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deesh
Joined: 23 Feb 2002
Posts: 2717
Location: +001
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| Posted: Thu Jan 26, 2006 02:56 |
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i want to make it clear that i am not defending rob and don't praise anyone but God..but...
i guess i just don't get what you guys are saying. i love the old sound and feel you on that vibe. i love the albums in the order they came out with the 6th being over the 4th. that's it. so i feel you on the nostalgia. but to me, whether rob is there or not...jay is going to do what he wants to do. if he wants to do a country tune, he'll do a country tune. if he wants to eliminate live percussion, he'll eliminate live percussion. if he does that and adds a rock solo in it's place, will that be rob's fault? i'm sure jay wanted rob just as much as rob wanted to be in the group...therefore, how is rob responsible for the composition or the evolution of the group's sound?
and rob is good at what he does. maybe it's not best shown in this group or with this genre (to some of you), but if jay has someone who can play like that or has other talents, why would he sit on that? and why would rob tolerate being in a group that underutilizes him?
i love this discussion and i'm learning a lot in here. so, i'm diggin and respecting what you all are saying. i dig the new school also.
and to keep it real, let's not even talk about copying......  |
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Cheeba vibe
Joined: 23 Jan 2006
Posts: 140
Location: Florence Italy
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| Posted: Thu Jan 26, 2006 07:10 |
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...eh eh, about copying....those were not my words, they're coming from Debussy...
I wanna make a little example: yesterday I was listening to "High times", live version. With Simon Katz on guitar. The song has (no doubt) a high rock flavor. Ok, that song, that arrangement meets my taste. It's still a "classic" Jamiro song: a rock intro and verses (beautiful work by Toby on keyboards...), then a more relaxed chorus. Now compare it to..."Black Devil Car" (with Rob on credits...): is it still a Jamiro song? I don't think so.... |
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