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Deja
Joined: 05 Jun 2006
Posts: 650
Location: Turin, Italy
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 Posted: Sat Sep 02, 2006 21:14 |
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why are u all so sure that the piece of meat in Your dishes cames from the same animal that's in Your shoes ? only 'cause it's all beef doesen't mean it cames from the same buffalo... Inaki your reasoning was right if u were the one raising the cow, killing it ( and u will probably eat grass close to her not to kill her  ) and use any part of her for your needs!!
I'm not so sure my "bistecca" ( meat slice I suppose) cames from the same cow is in my adidas.. and probably there are different cows for eating and for leather!! ( a meat cow has to get fastly fat, a leather cow not, she will f*** up the skin)
Or not?
Vere
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funkmaster
Site Admin
Joined: 10 Feb 2002
Posts: 118
Location: Hannover/Germany
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| Posted: Sat Sep 02, 2006 21:16 |
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| VirtuallyInsane wrote: |
| To me the difference here comes into play with fur from animals that are killed needlessly in the face of fashion & not for food... |
Good point to comment! When we are honest, nowadays killing animals for food is as needless as killing them for fashion! |
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Deja
Joined: 05 Jun 2006
Posts: 650
Location: Turin, Italy
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| Posted: Sat Sep 02, 2006 21:22 |
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ah in italy we have
VEGETARIAN; eat fish and milk but not meat
Vegetalian: eat only not animal and not cooked things
and Vegan: eat only not animal things
to me.. if I could take eggs from a place where hens are well treated ( on the floor, at open air, free, and eating safe food that mean not medicines in it) I would buy them, same to cheeses and milk...right now we do 25 miles every 7 days x milk ( but no eggs and cheeses  )!!
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Deja
Joined: 05 Jun 2006
Posts: 650
Location: Turin, Italy
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| Posted: Sat Sep 02, 2006 22:19 |
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and before going to bed same fun images that explains all what we said today ( dedicated to kids)
and to Inaki:
enjoy them and thanks for the tips, ideas and sharing
DejaVere
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No man is an Island, entire of itself; every man is a piece of the Continent, a part of the main and any man's death diminishes me, because
I am involved in Mankind. |
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funkmaster
Site Admin
Joined: 10 Feb 2002
Posts: 118
Location: Hannover/Germany
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| Posted: Sun Sep 03, 2006 01:05 |
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| Deja wrote: |
| I've been vegetarian for 8 years untill the doctors found out that the thing that miss in my blood is same protein that is only in same food ( is more complicated than this actually), meat pratically, there was no chance to convinde them that seytan, soy meat and similars are full of protein so I had to became a meat eater again ( and even now eating meat I'm 41 kg of weight and have to fight to keep it)! |
Hi Deja,
funny - i just saw in tv a report about a clinic producing a special High-Tech protein drink, contenting all relevant amino acids. They use this for helping people to loose fat AND build up lean mass and muscles. Their claim is, that the composition provides your body with everything it needs during the diet. Everything confirmed by recent reliable studies and they have many testimonials. The report has been broadcasted by n-tv, a serious German business channel.
I have sent them an enquiry asking for the table of contents. The website is www.sep-diaet.de - unfortunately only in German.
But there is one page in English about the nutrition consulting services of that clinic: www.musenhof-kliniken.de/en/
If you PM me more facts, I could enquire again - particularly pointing out your situation.
Bye,
Miran |
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lilyjammer
Moderator & Jamily Coach
Joined: 30 Jan 2006
Posts: 735
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| Posted: Sun Sep 03, 2006 06:43 |
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Regarding the difficulties of raising vegetarian children (something Meike and I have discussed, and I was so happy to find a fellow vege-mum!) I think the hardest part is making other people aware. When my youngest son goes to birthday parties I always have to explain, "He is vegetarian - no meat, no chicken, no ham, no fish..." and mostly they look at me like I have three eyes! My eldest is taking all this on his own when he goes away with friends or his sports club and I am so proud that at 15 he is so firm in his convictions 
We try to educate our kids not just about the moral position (why consuming any animal for any reason other than survival is wrong), but also about the environmental impact of the meat industry. If everyone stopped eating meat today, there would be enough farm land available for growing grain and seed crops to feed every person on this planet. There would be more water for human consumption. There would be less disease. It's a simple equation, but one the powerful meat industry doesn't want us to see.
xxx
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lilyjammer
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CosmicMouse
Jamirotalk mum
Joined: 10 Feb 2002
Posts: 4821
Location: Germany
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| Posted: Sun Sep 03, 2006 07:38 |
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| lilyjammer wrote: |
but also about the environmental impact of the meat industry. If everyone stopped eating meat today, there would be enough farm land available for growing grain and seed crops to feed every person on this planet. There would be more water for human consumption. There would be less disease. It's a simple equation, but one the powerful meat industry doesn't want us to see.
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When I learned that fact I already had been vegetarian. (...I stopped eating meat because I didn't like the thought of eating dead, cutted cadavers of animals. Disgusting, if you think more about it - at least for me).
But when I learned more and more about the backgrounds, the circumstances, the suffering of the animals - all things I was never aware of, because they make you think the cows and pigs are having a worthwhile life before they are killed "softly"  - when I learned all the facts, I have been felt really confirmed in my decision. (beside that I was shocked what I had learned!)
Actually, I have never tried to convince anyone that this decision is the right one. You have to decide yourself. It has something to do with respect of life.
But when you see the fact that eating meat contributes to world hunger (that's indeed a fact - let me know if you want to have links to read more about it!).. then I wonder myself if it wouldn't be my bounden duty to inform as many people about it as I can to make them aware of this fact. Maybe then more people would stop eating meat - if not for the sake of the animals, but then for the hungry human beings in the world!
Mouse
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jamirokaki
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Joined: 29 Jan 2003
Posts: 3472
Location: basque country
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| Posted: Sun Sep 03, 2006 13:46 |
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| Deja wrote: |
why are u all so sure that the piece of meat in Your dishes cames from the same animal that's in Your shoes ? only 'cause it's all beef doesen't mean it cames from the same buffalo... Inaki your reasoning was right if u were the one raising the cow, killing it ( and u will probably eat grass close to her not to kill her ) and use any part of her for your needs!!
I'm not so sure my "bistecca" ( meat slice I suppose) cames from the same cow is in my adidas.. and probably there are different cows for eating and for leather!! ( a meat cow has to get fastly fat, a leather cow not, she will f*** up the skin)
Or not?
Vere |
the meat i buy comes with a label that guarrants that is a cow from basque country wich have been treated alright, eating grass and without giving him any hormones or shit like that...same with other meats as chicken etc...
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VirtuallyInsane
Joined: 10 Jun 2002
Posts: 868
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| Posted: Sun Sep 03, 2006 20:20 |
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| lilyjammer wrote: |
| If everyone stopped eating meat today, there would be enough farm land available for growing grain and seed crops to feed every person on this planet. There would be more water for human consumption. There would be less disease. It's a simple equation, but one the powerful meat industry doesn't want us to see. |
Interesting point... However, sadly it will never be that simple an equation because enough food still doesn't guarantee that those needing food will get it. There's too much corruption, greed & selfishness around... |
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deesh
Joined: 23 Feb 2002
Posts: 2717
Location: +001
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| Posted: Mon Sep 04, 2006 00:56 |
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| lilyjammer wrote: |
| There would be less disease. |
Can you explain this a bit more in simplistic terms or provide links for me in a PM? I work with infectious diseases and am very interesting in this statement.
I know this is not the disease you are referring to, but I wish that there would be less HIV infectious rates because of the stopping of consumption of meat. Well, that statement can be read how you want  , and I don't want to go off topic, but if you could give me more facts and links to read relating to that statement, I'd appreciate it!
Yvie - Great last post and last line of that post!
Thanks
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lilyjammer
Moderator & Jamily Coach
Joined: 30 Jan 2006
Posts: 735
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| Posted: Mon Sep 04, 2006 05:35 |
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Yvie, that's so true!
Deesh, meat consumption (especially red meat) is linked to a number of cancers (stomach, bowel, colon for starters), as well as problems caused by the consumption of large amounts of antibiotics (eg antibiotic resistant strains of bacteria).
Animals raised for human consumption are also fed hormones to help them grow faster and fatter - did you know that the age of onset of menstruation in middle class girl in the USA is now as low as eight because of the massive amounts of hormones they consume in their diet? It can also lead to increased risk of cervical and breast cancers.
I'll send some links later today You might also like to check out the book "The Sexual Politics of Meat" by Carol J. Adams for a feminist-vegetarian viewpoint.
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Deja
Joined: 05 Jun 2006
Posts: 650
Location: Turin, Italy
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| Posted: Mon Sep 04, 2006 10:07 |
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Thanks Miran for Your interest!! I've send U a PM!
Inaki, right that's the same I do.. while I HAVE to eat meat at least I try to eat the heltier I found ( x me and x them), but still Is something I don't like and I feel that since I eat meat again I' more aggressive an have less energies!! a part for how I feel x the animals!!
anyway.. to me It would be much more natural to be vegetarian..as I've been for ages like my mum and my boyfriend are!!
The point I was questioning about is that whatever your opinion about this is, there are few chances that the same animals that are raised to be eaten are the same used to the leather industry..also beacause thay use many different kind of animal skin, pigs, cows, horses and so on!!
Cave's ppl used to do it that way, they where using all part of the animal like native indians and all thoose populations, but nowadays the market is to ...business focused to believe it is the same, even if it would be better, not for the animals anyway ...but more natural!!
I'm glad of samething guys, usually while I speak of this subjects with meat eaters the common answer is :" this is how world goes, there's nothing to do!!" ( that's something that really turn me crazy whatever the subject is) and here no one of You said such a thing...that's mean to me...we're mind open to new solutions!!
I've go get ready 'cause today I start my school exams ( i'm trying to finish high school even if 10 years in delay) ...so I will not be much around in this nwxt days ... but thanks a lot to all of You for the nice talk about this subjects!!
And for the links of corse!! they are really interesting and my boyfriend spend all the evening of saturday surfing the web ..and we really found out new solutions!!
That's it for now got to get bak on my books!!
Thank to all of U
DejaVere
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No man is an Island, entire of itself; every man is a piece of the Continent, a part of the main and any man's death diminishes me, because
I am involved in Mankind. |
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deesh
Joined: 23 Feb 2002
Posts: 2717
Location: +001
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| Posted: Mon Sep 04, 2006 18:56 |
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Hey Rachael - Thanks for the info. I knew that about the hormones being injected into the meat and about little girls and their fast development being partially attributed to this. While I don't encourage the stopping of meat consumption, I do tell my students to get hormone free meat, which is only a few pennies more at the store, especially my students that are mothers. It's not only obvious with the menstrual cycle, but very much with the chest, voice, and other pubescent stages.
Funny - I was raised to not drink milk, because my dad used to say that it's to make cows grow...not people. I've never had a glass of milk in my life or eaten it with cereal!
I was just especially curious because many of the places that don't have access to meat have the highest infection rates of all types of diseases. This is why your statement stood out to me, I guess.
As far as breast and cervical cancer....hmmm...I don't know - 'can lead to breast cancer' is something I see all the time and am very skeptical of. As far as cervical cancer...I know a lot about it since HPV is one of the biggest leaders to cervical cancer, especially in African American women. I have to read more about both of those and see case studies directly linking the consumption of meat, animal products to both cancers.
Now that I've found my focus again, I'm going to be going back to school for public health, so this conversation is very interesting to me, even if just to read and digest. I will definitely check out that book.
Thanks, Deesh
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jamirokaki
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Joined: 29 Jan 2003
Posts: 3472
Location: basque country
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| Posted: Mon Sep 04, 2006 23:25 |
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well, i hope you people care also about buying vegetals wich are being also trated well, the chemical products used in so many vegetal stuff it's so bad for fauna, flora and nature in general......
someday wehn i got my own home, i will have my own little garde with natural vegetals, using only water to feed them
yummy
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