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Space Clav
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Joined: 21 Nov 2005
Posts: 1732
Location: The Internet
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 Posted: Thu Jan 26, 2006 07:25 |
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There's a HUGE difference between evolving and changing. If your music evolve you develop a different sound based on the old sound. If you change you change direction completely.
You can clearly hear how Jamiroquai evolved from EOPE to TROTSC. Then with TWM it was a 50-50 situation, they evolved some and changed some. With Synkronized they kept changing a bit, I wouldn't say they evolved one bit.
Suddenly with AFO they changed completely, they took a whole new direction. With Dynamite it's a small step back into the right direction with some songs... kinda like they stepped back to the Synkronized path a bit. But with some other songs they keep walking down the long winding road of rock. Like that's never been done before. 
I refuse to change. I will cling on to the past forever and keep praying that Jamiroquai will find their roots again. It doesn't mean that I don't appreciate some of the more recent material though. But I will always prefer their old style.
Acid Jazz before rock, forever! And I'd rather have (70s) disco than rock too. Rock is so passé... that is certainly one style unable to evolve. |
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High Times
Joined: 25 Oct 2004
Posts: 744
Location: music written by JK/Toby Smith
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| Posted: Thu Jan 26, 2006 10:05 |
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| Cheeba vibe wrote: |
...eh eh, about copying....those were not my words, they're coming from Debussy...
I wanna make a little example: yesterday I was listening to "High times", live version. With Simon Katz on guitar. The song has (no doubt) a high rock flavor. Ok, that song, that arrangement meets my taste. It's still a "classic" Jamiro song: a rock intro and verses (beautiful work by Toby on keyboards...), then a more relaxed chorus. Now compare it to..."Black Devil Car" (with Rob on credits...): is it still a Jamiro song? I don't think so.... |
For me High Times is no way a rock song. This is the craziest Jazz Funk with punchy synth bass and live bass riff.
I play it on piano - it has the most crazy jazz chords i've ever heard!!!
Such magical jazz verse and chorus chords could be written only by such genious man like Toby - its all about his magical musical vision, mate.
Last edited by High Times on Thu Jan 26, 2006 12:44; edited 1 time in total |
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freeetz!
Joined: 31 Jan 2003
Posts: 351
Location: Ukraine
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| Posted: Thu Jan 26, 2006 10:12 |
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| Spanish Cozmik Girl wrote: |
| rob and paul are rock musicians, aren't they? i guess it counts.. |
Zender too... have u heard LEROI? not jazzy at all 
I like earlier stuff too, but I don't think it's Rob's fault. He can play good funk guitar too. I think now that Jamiroquai don't have that much musicians on stage as they had before, Jay wants something to fill the space - hence all that guitar passages on the concerts. |
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Cheeba vibe
Joined: 23 Jan 2006
Posts: 140
Location: Florence Italy
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| Posted: Thu Jan 26, 2006 10:15 |
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...(acc, my bad english)...
I was not kidding: I wrote "High times (live version, repeat live version) has a rock FLAVOR". This doesn't means that IS a rock song. But...putting a distorted synth bass line, doubling it (live) with a distorted guitar (a-la Sly & Family Stone) doesn't mean that I've "painted" my jazzy song with "rock" colours? |
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Cheeba vibe
Joined: 23 Jan 2006
Posts: 140
Location: Florence Italy
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| Posted: Thu Jan 26, 2006 10:21 |
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...after all, after all possible discussions...my point of view is: the contribute in writing songs from Rob has not the same quality of the past members. And...note this: I'm talking only about Rob. Nothing to say about Matt's composing help. He has not the magical taste of Toby, but "Seven Days" is a wonderful piece that he wrote....I like to experiment, I'm not just a nostalgic: but a good experiment (for me) could be "Electric Mistress", not "Black devil car" for sure.... |
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High Times
Joined: 25 Oct 2004
Posts: 744
Location: music written by JK/Toby Smith
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| Posted: Thu Jan 26, 2006 12:08 |
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Guys, i dont think Rob is that bad. He is a cool musician,
he added coolest brazilian/portuguese feel on "A Funk Odyssey" - for this i will be always grateful (and for writing of You Give Me Something).
I have shivers when listening to "Black Crow". And for me "A Funk Odyssey" is a masterpiece - because it has J's & Toby's songwriting and Rob's ballads which i love.
And as for funk playing - it can be different..
First of all i am one of the biggest fans of Simon on this planet , so dont get me wrong when i say this:
Simon Katz as well as for example Marvin Gaye's Gordon Banks played funk with vintage sound and oldschool vision and feel with lots of unexpected improvized rhythmic structures and amazing jazzy tricks and beautiful quiet nuances - he doesnt play loud and doesnt use bright sound - his guitar sounds and speaks so quietly and tenderly and with such deep fat character of old sophisticated jazzfunk masters. His quiet sound has millions of oldschool fat overtones and beautiful vintage colors. Sometimes he uses high gain sound, but its so vintage - that its such a pleasure to listen to it - Check Mclaren launch party 1997. Simon used amazing vintage fender 1959 bassman tweed guitar amp and Gibson ES-345 guitars and old fender guitars.
Rob plays funk modern way with modern sound, but he does play cool in his style. hey, dont you like the way Little L or Love Foolosophy sounds????!!!! He's also cool!!!!
Last edited by High Times on Thu Jan 26, 2006 19:11; edited 2 times in total |
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deesh
Joined: 23 Feb 2002
Posts: 2717
Location: +001
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| Posted: Thu Jan 26, 2006 12:27 |
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from cheeba vibe: ...eh eh, about copying....those were not my words, they're coming from Debussy...
yes, i know and your english is fine. funny, both those songs you mention (EM, BDC) i skip over. both because of the combination of lyrics and music. not just the music.
space clav,
we just see things different here down to the definition of words. to me, evolve means to change. it can be based on whatever, but it is still a change. you can evolve and change direction. matter of fact the dictionary defines evolve as gradual change (well, the one at my desk..haha). synkronized changed just a bit? my ears hear this a bit differently..it was a lot of bit. to me, that is when the sound started to really change or evolve or whatevee . while you say 5th, i say 4th..it's all good i love acid jazz and agree with what you said about that. yes, the long winding road of rock has been walked before, but so has acid jazz/funk right? jamiroquai wasn't the first band to bring it to music. they brought their interpretation, which was/is amazing. and about roots..well, you know...a brunette (jamiroquai) can dye their hair (change their music) over and over again to become blonde or black (crossover to other genres, experiment)- but no matter what they are still a brunette (jamiroquai). roots (funk/jazz) always show, even when covered 
****
freetz - i like what you said about LEROI. that is what i said. do you all really think that zender and toby would have continued to play the same style if still in the band? really? don't you think they would have wanted to eventually try new stuff that maybe wouldn't have been in the spirited 'acid jazz'?
****
the first album is the only album my mom likes (she's a pianist, jazz lover). she says ROTSC is in a direction that steers off the jazz path. i disagree with her, but she's my mom..can't argue for long with her! HA!
as i said, i love the albums in this order 1, 2, 3, 6, 4, 5..so i dig and miss the old songs. but hell, i miss my ex-boyfriend too. with things in life you move on and learn to love and appreciate what you got because you could have nothing. word.
but it seems that the shift of this post is to fault or place blame on rob's presence..and he isn't the one calling the shots! if it wasn't rob, it'd be someone else. if jay didn't want it there and envision it there, it wouldn't be there.
with much love,hugs, kisses and evolution , deesh |
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Cheeba vibe
Joined: 23 Jan 2006
Posts: 140
Location: Florence Italy
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| Posted: Thu Jan 26, 2006 13:28 |
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...to stop the discussion in a smiley way, wouldn't be a great idea if I bought a pair of wonderful Adidas SL76 during this weekend????
Let me be happy, maybe tonight I'll be father for the second time!!! (she wants to get out !) |
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jamirokaki
Expert
Joined: 29 Jan 2003
Posts: 3472
Location: basque country
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| Posted: Thu Jan 26, 2006 13:57 |
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maybe to simplify a bit the discussion we should separate the fact of the change in their music and the fact of their change in the bandmembers
we will never know how it would be if the bandmemebers stay there or if the change is because the new members......
another fact is that the brass section was dropped so most of the songs were arranged with guitar solos and riffs.
but the real question for me is 
what plays gavin dodds/simon bartholomew? funk/acid jazz
what plays simon katz? funk/smooth jazz
what plays rob harris? funky/rock!
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***STONED AGAIN*** |
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deesh
Joined: 23 Feb 2002
Posts: 2717
Location: +001
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| Posted: Thu Jan 26, 2006 14:28 |
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cheeba vibe - that's great news. combine the two - congratulate yourself for being a father again with a new pair of adidas!
i look forward to having a family in about 7 years. i'm going to adopt from africa - most likely a child with HIV/AIDS (hopefully the virus won't still be around, but that is a lot of hoping unfortunately). been looking at all the information. it's going to take some time, so i started it all now. i talked to rob and paul about this in new york. it was a good conversation.
anyway....congratulations on your new addition when she arrives.
jamirokaki - love this: another fact is that the brass section was dropped so most of the songs were arranged with guitar solos and riffs.
so true!
oh, i changed my name from vibingirl to deesh...just grew out of the nickname i guess |
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Cheeba vibe
Joined: 23 Jan 2006
Posts: 140
Location: Florence Italy
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| Posted: Thu Jan 26, 2006 14:34 |
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that's a good idea, deesh, a very good idea!
I love that Adidas (Starsky & Hutch) style, and....yes, of course, I will love my new daughter too!
Love and peace to all the funky people!
p.s.: your adoption at distance is a fabulous thing! |
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Dye
Correspondent & Expert
Joined: 16 Nov 2003
Posts: 5146
Location: Planet Home; Buenos Aires, Argentina
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| Posted: Thu Jan 26, 2006 16:07 |
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My Two Cents (with Ken Brockman)
Wow
This is a very complicated subject, that should have its own separate discussion music/evolving/rob etc etc.
I don't agree on the fact that Rob 'changed' the music direction from AFO. The music direction changed because of Jay, and the fact that the HORN SECTION almost dissapeared. THAT'S for me the main reason why the music changed from the previous albums.
D! (dyego) |
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mr.az
Joined: 01 Sep 2005
Posts: 2421
Location: rallying
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| Posted: Thu Jan 26, 2006 16:58 |
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ok, i dont have sinkronyzed yet...but i have all the other albums and here is my point of view.
late but im here...
a band need change and experiment always, a band can sound always like the first time is like u use the same sexual position again and again and again, u need experimentation¡¡¡¡¡¡¡¡ 
i know we are talking about music, but in every point of the life u need experimentation, u can fall in love twice of the same kind of girl, u can buy the same kind of car twice, u can have sex in the same positions twice...im a artist and i know what im talking about, i cant do the same thing two times because is boring, u lost your hope and ideas.
u need try something new, always is better
in that case, the car builders need more experimentation and less comebacks and dejavus...now the ''new chevy camaro 2007''...is based in the old camaro, they dont know a bit of experimentation, they need do a real new car with all the things weird and better for break the car market and dont be so conservative...
EXPERIMENTATION, BABY
try all u can do, dont do the same twice
u can be boring at the second time...
i understand why jay make so many changes, is better if u have a open mind for do new things and test for see what is good and what is not on the top...
''full road runner''
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Only a fool can walk away from me this time
TWM=RDLS
AFO=AUTOMATON |
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jamirokaki
Expert
Joined: 29 Jan 2003
Posts: 3472
Location: basque country
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| Posted: Fri Jan 27, 2006 00:42 |
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what are you waiting for getting synkronized????????
     
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mr.az
Joined: 01 Sep 2005
Posts: 2421
Location: rallying
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| Posted: Fri Jan 27, 2006 02:08 |
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| jamirokaki wrote: |
what are you waiting for getting synkronized????????
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nothing, maybe in a month i gonna buy the album
i hope still yet in musimundo
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Only a fool can walk away from me this time
TWM=RDLS
AFO=AUTOMATON |
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