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jamirokaki
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Joined: 29 Jan 2003
Posts: 3472
Location: basque country
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 Posted: Sat Sep 02, 2006 18:32 |
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well, i don't see the cannibal ethnies as assasins if you ask me.
| funkmaster wrote: |
jamirokaki Wink - you just wrote "as a animal myself" and I simply couldn't resist Smile In my eyes all of our justifications for eating meat appear very absurd, if examined a bit closer. For me the most honest and understandable "excuse" is, what funkadelic said: It's common - and most of us don't know it another way.
However, I am a human being and of course "we are animals - animals are eating animals" does not count for me. Animals can not serve as a model for human ethics
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if a shark or a lion eats me when i'm having a bath or a trip on the sabanah i neither will say that animal is a killer or assasin, it's just eating (or defending or whatever), some animals eats plants, some other leaves, other just meat and other whatever they catch, i don't need any excuse to eat anything as far as the nature (not an individual animal or plant (life forms too)) goes on, i mean keeping the cicle going, from bacteiries to all the plants, animals, fungi and moneras....
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CosmicMouse
Jamirotalk mum
Joined: 10 Feb 2002
Posts: 4821
Location: Germany
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| Posted: Sat Sep 02, 2006 18:52 |
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But there is a difference between animals and human beings:
Animals (the meat-eaters) are killing other animals to survive. They don't have the choice. They have no moral.
The human hunters x-thousand years ago from now did hunt for the same reason: to survive. They didn't have alternatives.
What we humans are doing nowadays is not natural. Breeding animals - creating a whole industry for it to make money, no matter how to treat the living creatures...
We have the choice. We have alternatives. We won't die if we decide not to kill animals in order to eat them. That's the difference.
If I would be in danger and could only save the lifes of my family if I kill an animal to feed them - if I didn't have a choice I wouldn't hesitate to kill that animal to survive, but this is not the case. I can decide. And I decide to respect the animals lives and don't support this mass-murdering.
Note: I will spilt this topic, so that we can go on discussing without going offtopic. 
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jamirokaki
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Joined: 29 Jan 2003
Posts: 3472
Location: basque country
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| Posted: Sat Sep 02, 2006 19:37 |
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yes, we got the choice.
i don't support the farms wich haves chickens in a tiny jail with a tube coonected to the mouth to feed them and all that, same with other animals, those are mostly go as mc chicken and burger cow, places were i not go to eat, but thats completely different from a cow eating grass wich will be killed and selled as meat.
same with animals like thee octopus wich is killed hiting it heavily with the rocks to get his meat better for eating, i neither eat those animals.
again i don't see bad the canibal cultures, so my moral goes not so wrong with my acts....
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deesh
Joined: 23 Feb 2002
Posts: 2717
Location: +001
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| Posted: Sat Sep 02, 2006 19:40 |
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Question..because you all are WAY more versed at this topic than myself...and animal rights isn't my thing really...
If someone truly is for animals, etc...wouldn't they be a vegans, not a vegetarian? Don't vegetarians still partake in the consumption of animals?
I'm a bit confused on the difference or how that all works, because I know vegetarians that still eat fish and eggs, but say they are for animals?
I know it sounds like I'm a bit of an idiot, but I am very uneducated on this!
Thanks!
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funkmaster
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Joined: 10 Feb 2002
Posts: 118
Location: Hannover/Germany
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| Posted: Sat Sep 02, 2006 19:42 |
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| jamirokaki wrote: |
| again i don't see bad the canibal cultures, so my moral goes not so wrong with my acts.... |
OK, ... - bon appétit! |
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funkmaster
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Joined: 10 Feb 2002
Posts: 118
Location: Hannover/Germany
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| Posted: Sat Sep 02, 2006 19:49 |
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| deesh wrote: |
| Question..because you all are WAY more versed at this topic than myself...and animal rights isn't my thing really... |
You are completly right, Deesha! Vegans are the ones who completly refuse to support the meat industry and the exploitation of animals in any way. Thus, veganism can't be reduced to a way of nutrition - it includes all aspects. So, to be precise ... - I see myself as being vegan. |
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deesh
Joined: 23 Feb 2002
Posts: 2717
Location: +001
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| Posted: Sat Sep 02, 2006 19:52 |
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| funkmaster wrote: |
| deesh wrote: |
| Question..because you all are WAY more versed at this topic than myself...and animal rights isn't my thing really... |
You are completly right, Deesha! Vegans are the ones who completly refuse to support the meat industry and the exploitation of animals in any way. Thus, veganism can't be reduced to a way of nutrition - it includes all aspects. So, to be precise ... - I see myself as being vegan. |
Okay. I'm going to read more on this when I get home. Just something interesting and foreign to me. Deciding to be a vegan or vegetarian takes so much discipline and dedication..
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funkmaster
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Joined: 10 Feb 2002
Posts: 118
Location: Hannover/Germany
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| Posted: Sat Sep 02, 2006 20:25 |
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| deesh wrote: |
| Deciding to be a vegan or vegetarian takes so much discipline and dedication.. |
First of all it takes awarness of the unfairness and the suffering - the sustained horror and the human guilt. And then it takes the decision to not being part of this live contemptuous machinery anymore.
What follows is the process of translating this decision into the everyday live. And that's what Meike and me are in currently. I agree that this process needs dedication. It affects not "only" the nutrition, but as well the choice of shoes, furniture, car interior, medicine(!), cosmetics and so on. However, it IS a process and will remain a process - especially if you have kids. (icecream!) 
Howevery, if you want to dig deeper into it, www.peta.net is a good place to get informed and impressed (what I think is important for being motivated to make the a.m. decision).
Miran |
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Deja
Joined: 05 Jun 2006
Posts: 650
Location: Turin, Italy
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| Posted: Sat Sep 02, 2006 20:32 |
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well a part from everything this is caming out to be the most interesting topic in ages x me!!
Thanks Meike, it was a good idea to put it all togheter here 
I've been vegetarian for 8 years untill the doctors found out that the thing that miss in my blood is same protein that is only in same food ( is more complicated than this actually), meat pratically, there was no chance to convinde them that seytan, soy meat and similars are full of protein so I had to became a meat eater again ( and even now eating meat I'm 41 kg of weight and have to fight to keep it)!
so, since then I'm running like a crazy to find same protein non animal food, so to me is a VERY sensible subject!!
Like Meike i'm still trying to find out a way to handle the all question!!
I've no problem in buying and wearing fake leather instead I feel very proud while I do that!! and you should see me while I meet sameone wearing a fur, I look at them like if they are just rubbish!!
To me it does not make any difference if U kill a cow, a monkey or a snake, and it does not make any difference the use!! I've been horse riding for ages so i've never tried horses meet I must admit, like a lot of others meats!
I try to buy as less animal stuff I can ( winter shoes once a year and nothing else, and yes I do feel guilty, this year I bought adidas and while I got home I found out they are also made in Vietnam so this will be deff. my first and last pair)) and often I pay much more for a fake leather thing! it's my choice!!
A part from everything i've been working for a long time in my city pubblic kennel and I've seen so many crudelties that u cannot even immagine (luckily) and that gave the final heat to my conscience!!
also, JMQ to me is not only an amazing music but a message spread out : this is the only place we have to live in...and we'r not treating it properly!!
That's way when I see a connection between Jay and any dirty stuff like animal testing or leather I get mad!!
TO ME Jay working with a brand that does test on animals or use leather is the same of Gino Strada ( the foundator of Emergency) adopting one of Bill Gates kids!!
I know the Buffalo man is just a logo, and that songs are just songs but still I cannot stay silent while I see sonething I don't like! It may not make any difference to Jay ( i dunno, I'm supposing) but it does make difference to me.
I spend lot of my time finding not tested things, like Lush for the body care, Almonature to feed my dogs ( yes they do test animal food on animals!!!) and going to the supermarket with the full list of brands not to buy, so...I feel is absolutly my right to feel desappointed... and say loud I'M NOT GONNA BUY THIS, SUPPORT THIS or even WATCH IT IN SILENCE!! And I'm glad I'm not alone
I'm over, the last thing...while I was writing this post ( long to me and hard 'cause is in english) I went down with the dogs and a kid came to me :
Kid:" Is this an English Bulldog?"
Me:" Yes the small one is a bulldog!
Kid:" Did u saved from the land where they eat bulldogs?"
he made same confusions for sure, but hey this is the message we're all going to "our " kids!!
Nite all
Verena
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Deja
Joined: 05 Jun 2006
Posts: 650
Location: Turin, Italy
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| Posted: Sat Sep 02, 2006 20:37 |
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ah guys do U know in Italy every time U eat Pizza u're eating pork fat??
ah if U know internationals brand of fake leather things or not tested animal stuff it will be nice to post them here!!
Me I know:
Lush ( also vegan stuff)
Almo nature (x animals)
Benevertobusytobebeautiful ( make up)
but don't know how to make the web link  
and thanks for the peta link, I'll spend my days on it i did not know they had also a shopping mall section!! really glad!!
Nite again
Verena
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No man is an Island, entire of itself; every man is a piece of the Continent, a part of the main and any man's death diminishes me, because
I am involved in Mankind.
Last edited by Deja on Sat Sep 02, 2006 20:49; edited 1 time in total |
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CosmicMouse
Jamirotalk mum
Joined: 10 Feb 2002
Posts: 4821
Location: Germany
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funkmaster
Site Admin
Joined: 10 Feb 2002
Posts: 118
Location: Hannover/Germany
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| Posted: Sat Sep 02, 2006 20:42 |
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| Deja wrote: |
| but don't know how to make the web link |
Deja, just post the URL (http://...) - it will become a link by itself |
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CosmicMouse
Jamirotalk mum
Joined: 10 Feb 2002
Posts: 4821
Location: Germany
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| Posted: Sat Sep 02, 2006 20:50 |
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http://www.veganstore.co.uk/ Vegan Store - Cruelty Free Fashion
>> cruelty free footware, fabulously fake jackets, leather alternatives, body care & cosmetics, vitamins & health care, groceries, sweet things, household products, candles, books, t-shirts, clothings, ect...
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I'm walking on air and every cloud is Cloud 9. ~ |
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VirtuallyInsane
Joined: 10 Jun 2002
Posts: 868
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| Posted: Sat Sep 02, 2006 21:05 |
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| jamirokaki wrote: |
| the way they torture and kill to get the fur is just inadmisible. i'm an animal defender myself (i not even KILL moskitos and other bugs just becouse they are ANNOYING, thinng that i'm sure other people do) , but i'm not vegetarian, and i see natural to eat other animals (as a animal myself) and honestly i don't see anything bad in using the sking of animals wich are been KILLED for EATING. |
I agree with Inaki here.
If a person no longer eats meat for health reasons then I can understand why they would still wear leather.
If a person stops eating meat for moral reasons I can't understand why they would wear leather. That's clearly being hypocritical in my opinion.
I do eat meat, & I do wear leather but I wouldn't wear most fur. As I eat meat I believe that there is nothing wrong with using the whole animal once it has been killed for food. The reason I wouldn't wear fur is because in the majority of these cases the animal is killed solely for its coat. Then again it depends on the fur. If I ate roast beef I wouldn't feel bad wearing leather shoes, & if I ate rabbit I wouldn't feel bad about also wearing the fur of that rabbit. To me the difference here comes into play with fur from animals that are killed needlessly in the face of fashion & not for food...
I respect those who are vegeterian or vegan for moral reasons & out of respect I wouldn't sit down & eat a pile of meat in front of them or flaunt some fancy leather coat... |
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Deja
Joined: 05 Jun 2006
Posts: 650
Location: Turin, Italy
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| Posted: Sat Sep 02, 2006 21:08 |
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ahhhhhhhh right thanks!!
Wow I'm discovering a world in peta website!!
I knew it but not so well!!
Really You made my day!!
( secret: One of the thing that i liked more in my bf while I meet him was that he was vegetarian and very sensible to all this issues!! ...and the amazing book called " fair brands guide"  )
let's try
www.lush.com
http://www.almonatureuk.com/
http://www.bnevertoobusytobebeautiful.com/index.php?main_page=index
It works!!!
Vere
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No man is an Island, entire of itself; every man is a piece of the Continent, a part of the main and any man's death diminishes me, because
I am involved in Mankind. |
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