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da boogie
Joined: 26 Dec 2007
Posts: 46
Location: Russia,Saint P.
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Funkalero
Joined: 13 Nov 2010
Posts: 138
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 Posted: Sun Jul 27, 2014 09:31 |
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Thank you for that one.  |
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Stenoquai
Joined: 05 Oct 2012
Posts: 30
Location: Russia
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| Posted: Sun Aug 03, 2014 13:12 |
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I made a bootleg of this concert, and I would like to share it with you 
Jamiroquai — Live At The Afisha Picnic Festival [Kolomenskoye, Moscow, Russia] (2014-07-19)
>> Download << |
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leo_myonlyway
Joined: 13 Oct 2010
Posts: 25
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| Posted: Sun Aug 03, 2014 17:53 |
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thx for upload! nice bootleg! |
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ophone
Joined: 31 May 2005
Posts: 2191
Location: Lëtzebuerg
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| Posted: Mon Aug 04, 2014 23:11 |
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| HoneyBee wrote: |
| ophone wrote: |
| HoneyBee wrote: |
Russia? aren't they at war?
not America?
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Russia ain't really at war at the moment. Funny such a question comes from someone who is from a country that is constantly at war for many decades now. (HoneyBee, you're from the US, aren't you?) |
haha I just saw this! America doesn't necessarily start wars, but they get involved in other country politics. So maybe we feed wars!
The U.S. citizens don't really support the war efforts our politics get involved in. And the medias that we are exposed to give us a biased opinion. Just as your opinion of Americans is probably biased! 
Starchild was great! |
Of course the US also start wars or at least continue wars: The Vietnam war, the last Iraq war, the war in Afghanistan...
And don't tell me now the US had the right to invade Afghanistan because of 9/11. With that logic they should have invaded Saudi Arabia, since almost every terrorist on the planes from 9/11 was Saudi.
Luckily I know that most US citizens don't support war, but it's your politicians who are messing up big time.
I also know that your opinion gets biased by your media, but tell me: What makes you think my opinion is biased?
Finally I'm sad that there is now a civil war in Ukraine...
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ophone
Joined: 31 May 2005
Posts: 2191
Location: Lëtzebuerg
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lk111
Joined: 20 Sep 2010
Posts: 41
Location: Bogota, Colombia
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| Posted: Thu Aug 07, 2014 15:52 |
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| Stenoquai wrote: |
I made a bootleg of this concert, and I would like to share it with you
Jamiroquai — Live At The Afisha Picnic Festival [Kolomenskoye, Moscow, Russia] (2014-07-19)
>> Download << |
Thank you so much!! Love to have Strachild on my iPod!!! Love they included this one!!! after 9 years!!!
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Curry
Joined: 19 Mar 2013
Posts: 184
Location: Arizona, USA
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| Posted: Thu Aug 07, 2014 23:37 |
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That particular principle/method is actually an international travesty.
It's not just the USA, it's every country.
Well developed countries will exploit resources from lesser developed countries.
In lesser developed countries, there is only a handful of people who profit off of it. Everyone else is struggling to survive and will take up any job to put food on the table, including taking a job at a company that cuts down trees from a rainforest, mine under a once proud mountain, be responsible for filling oil reserves with water, or polluting a fresh water source for the sake of chemical disposal.
People in power in those sorts of countries hold out for the highest bidder or better deal.
Well developed countries will do business with each other so that both cam profit off of that land. What's worse, our politicians....are normally people who were on the board of directors for some of these major companies.
We're supposed to separate business and politics, yet we all know that many politicians let companies get away with such things because those CEOs are the ones who line their pockets.
It's aggravating to see the BS time and time again. Many American citizens (as I hope citizens from their own countries) can read between the lines when it comes to what politicians say and how companies profit.
I know this was completely off-topic, but I just wanted to let you know that this sort of business, as scummy as it is and as hard as people fight against them, is nothing new and has a hand in every country on this planet.
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ophone
Joined: 31 May 2005
Posts: 2191
Location: Lëtzebuerg
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| Posted: Fri Aug 08, 2014 01:29 |
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Curry, unfortunately I have to agree with you. All this is really happening...
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HoneyBee
Joined: 21 Jul 2010
Posts: 673
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| Posted: Fri Aug 08, 2014 19:21 |
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Yes it's turned into a political conversation! My views are more from how society works.
Trading is great for everyone until it exploits someone. I’ve read Africa has been exploited by Portugal and much of Europe since about 1500. And the Triangular Trade 1700’s (England, America, Africa) benefited each continent. I believe Africa voluntarily traded and benefitted, but the thing that stands out is the selling (and using) of slaves. (which of course is wrong!) Imperialism as exploitation of a bigger-power nation onto a smaller-power nation exists well beyond America.
The Vietnam war began with France. My understanding is we went in to rescue France 1958. I don’t keep up on politics to know the reasons for all the wars. But so much info isn’t available to the public. I just know the way we approach things in the modern day is antagonistic. Whatever the wars are based on, we won’t know every reason. But the belief to conquer and make it right is wrong.
I personally don’t think G.W. Bush actually won either election!  He wasn’t meant to be in. I do believe he went in with an agenda his father began.
Our world has modernized replacing Community with Capitalism and Profit (Durkheim, Marx War feeds economies from the entrepreneurs.
Ophone, I’m not assuming your opinion! You are a great guy here, you never offend. We all have biased views, but I’ve realized through this forum in particular that Americans are hated. People survive relying on assumptions and stereotypes. |
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Trolll
Joined: 27 May 2002
Posts: 335
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| Posted: Tue Aug 12, 2014 10:20 |
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| HoneyBee wrote: |
| The Vietnam war began with France. My understanding is we went in to rescue France 1958. I don’t keep up on politics to know the reasons for all the wars. But so much info isn’t available to the public. |
Actually, (as always), things are a bit complicated! Here we go for a (hopefully quite short) history lesson...
Vietnam (then called "Indochina") was a French colony. Towards the end of WWII, the USA first supported the Viet-Minh (independentist) movement as they helped fight against the Japanese.
After WWII, around 1950, the Viet-Minh movement gained more and more influence and the people claimed independance. So, at first, this was "just" a war for independance against France.
At the same moment, Cold war was budding between US, Russia and China. China and Russia supported the Viet-Minh against France and, gradually, the war shifted to a fight to spread communism. That's when the US decided to help France, but the US didn't actively take part in that war, it was more of a backup support.
France eventually lost and Vietnam was divided into a communist republic in the North, and a nationalist Republic in the South (which was supported by the US).
So now, France is officially out of the game, they lost their colony and the US are happy with the Southern Republic that is not communist.
However, communist members of the Viet Minh started attacking the Southern republic (and exactly the same was happening in Korea with "Communist" North -backed by China and Russia- attacking "Independant" South).
For the US, loosing these "ally" territories was out of the question and (since Japan wasn't exacly their best friend) the US would also loose all zone of influence in South East Asia. That's actually when the US started the Vietnam War.
So, even though, the two events (Indochina war for Independance and Vietnam war) pretty much follow one another, the US didn't start the Vietnam war directly to support France, it's rather like 1) France gets kicked out, 2) China and Russia spread communism, 3) US fight communism.
That's the short(-ish) version, but, basically, that's the main idea ! 
| HoneyBee wrote: |
| Ophone, I’m not assuming your opinion! You are a great guy here, you never offend. We all have biased views, but I’ve realized through this forum in particular that Americans are hated. People survive relying on assumptions and stereotypes. |
Actually, I think all developed countries are worth the same. When they go at War, there always is an interest behind it. We let thousands of people being slaughtered for years without doing anything but, for example, as soon as there's oil involved, everyone will rush in to "help and free these people from dictatoriship, blah blah blah"... while the guy next door, where there's no oil or nothing interesting, can die with no one noticing or paying attention.
As a French guy, I'll give some examples for my own country: France, with all its old colonies in Africa, keeps "good relationships" with dictatorship regimes so as to be able to keep digging for oil. France is on its knees in front of China (avoiding absolutely all mention of the Dalai-Lama, human rights, and blocking most of Paris when Chinese officials visit the city) in the hope that they can sell some products to China. France protected Kadhafi and the Lybian regime for a long time because he was very generous to France. For some reason, all of a sudden, we went at war and he got killed very quickly once he started saying he had handed millions of dollars of illegal funds for the campaign of out former president Sarrkozy! He had been a terrible dictator for years, and French people weren't happy at all when he was received in Paris as a prince. It was all a matter of interest (and he was gotten rid of when the interests of France shifted)
There's ALWAYS some interest behind whatever the US, France, Russia or whatever other country might be doing.
The issue, as seen from Europe, is that the US keeps bragging that they're the best country in the world, that god blesses America and that they're the light of freedom shining over the world for all to see, blah blah blah... That's the view we, Europeans, are given. You shout high and loud that you're gonna save the world, while you're no better than most of other countries.
The US are one of the most exposed countries in the media, so all your flaws appear bigger. Most of us have seen documentaries about "Illiterate rednecks holding on to their guns and singing the national anthems while shooting mexicans along the border" on TV, but we hardly ever see... I don't know... drug cartels in Colombia, poverty in Africa, eating pets in China, or whatever.
The US set themselves as an example to the world and you are more watched than ANY other country. So as soon as there's a flaw, the flaw appears much bigger.
If there's a kid shooting down 20 pupils in a school in the US, it will be shown as the main news in France. If the same happens in Asia or Africa, it'll barely be mentioned in the news. So, of course, the average European will consider ya'll as dangerous gun freaks! (which is somehow true for too many Americans, unfortunately!).
If I pee in the street, no one will bother. If Johnny Depp does the same, it'll make the news all over the world. Same goes with the US. You get all the attention, and, as a consequence, you also get all the backlash...
Sorry for such a long long post !
[EDIT] Upon re-reading, I understand that I regularly use "You" for Americans, as if everyone was to blame, but, absolutely not. I'm well aware that 90% percent of people don't go like "Yeah, cool, another war!". Just like in any other country, most people remain critic and sometimes think "that's not right" without being able to do more than that. So please don't take any offense, I'm just trying to transcribe the view we're fed with over here in Europe)[/EDIT] |
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iranterres
Joined: 02 Apr 2008
Posts: 422
Location: Brasil
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| Posted: Wed Aug 13, 2014 00:52 |
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Wow so many long and interesting posts!!!
I'm just back here because it is not about Jamiroquai, haha!!!
Well, our governors are elected by us, so there not much to discuss about it, you choose the people you want in charge (IF there's democracy) and the rest is history.
Biased opinions will always exist as long as the media controls the type and amount of information you will be provided, so this is a world issue.
As of wars, well all I can say is that the history repeats itself, the only thing that changes over time are the characters. In the last couple of centuries we saw imperialism as the strongest world phenomena, and also witnessed power shifting from the Europe to the US, more evidently in the last half of the 20th century.
But the main point is... As much as with the US and a handful of countries, there are so many other facts to look back:
-The Egyptians learned the written language and it gave them an enormous power, they became able to create, hide and manipulate information so it made them capable of conquering all of the northern Africa and the Levant (also parts of southern Europe) all through war.
- Later the Romans learned how to control their time, invented the type of politics and social modelling we see today and also a pre-modern law system, also their army had its own language (Latin), which made them the biggest and most powerful empire in history, that lasted for more than 1000 years. All through war.
- Some time later the Muslim conquests made them owners of most of middle and western asia, thanks to their advances in mathematics, science and a very tight and funcional social structure, thanks to the people's loyalty to Mohammed and his taughts. They also held parts Europe, the Iberic peninsula and all of the northern Africa. All through war.
- After that we had the Golden Horde that was by far the most feared army in history of all wars, with it's innovative military tactics, ravaging everything, conquering everything killing everyone, a very orthodox way of dealing with things that made them for some centuries the biggest empire in the world.
- Then we had the Brittish empire fluorishing in europe, around 1400~1500 or so, they gradually became the most powerful nation in the world, in a form of empire, they managed to control most of european affairs, exploited the Africa, controlled the atlantic sea trade, controled most of the trade with asian trade as well also the biggest importer of slaves in history, most colonies created, etc, etc, managed to stay the biggest empire in the world for more than 400 years all through war as well.
- In parallel we had the Ottomans in middle east, taking control of many parts of asia, parts of Europe, they managed to rival the brittish in power for some time, an empire that also lasted around 400 years, until WWI.
Not to mention the Spanish, Dutch and Portuguese empire (wich generation the country I live) were all warmongers on their times. So what we see with US and the rest today is just more form the same. It makes me unable to go biased in any way.
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At the speed of cheeba, you and I go deeper... |
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Trolll
Joined: 27 May 2002
Posts: 335
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| Posted: Wed Aug 13, 2014 09:23 |
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Good words Iranterres !
You're right about the "cycles" idea. Europe once ruled the world, then it was the US and next is probably China (unless South America takes over).
Europe sure had its share of atrocities (Catholic crusades, where, basically, we slaughtered every "infidel" who would refuse the message of God unfortunately sounds strangely familiar with what's happening today. This was wrong a thousand years ago, and is still wrong today...). Power and influence are always kept or gained through war and struggle... |
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HoneyBee
Joined: 21 Jul 2010
Posts: 673
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| Posted: Fri Aug 15, 2014 02:56 |
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haha I love it! Trolll puts it out there in detail! This is like a history lesson!
Yes I've read Vietnam was based on the Red scare -Communism. S. Vietnam being influenced by the north.
For me, what I know of the Vietnam era is more of the social revolution of the hippies and music that came out of it! Americans against their government's choices.
"God Bless America" I believe was used to increase a patriotism. Just as W.Bush pulled out the religion card following 911. We do have rednecks, and gun freaks. (or according to what media I'm fed!!) We also have intelligent and educated people. It's a huge territory.
What may be seen as an arrogance, I assume exists for most citizens in any country. Don't most people think their country is the best? Ironically many Americans are not American-born.
Media hype -I agree -America is over-exposed. Although I don't really know what you see. I don't see much media on France, but as our rumor goes- the French are rude! (but you're not rude, and I think I'd like it in France.)
Iranterres haha so much detail!
| Quote: |
| In the last couple of centuries we saw imperialism as the strongest world phenomena, and also witnessed power shifting from the Europe to the US, more evidently in the last half of the 20th century. |
this I believe is due to the countries successful with industrialism and are now in post-industrial economies. The super powers, perhaps. But each country makes contributions, and are recognized until the next best thing comes along.
The shift and changes are natural phenomenon. We can't control it.
What era is next? I'm sure it'll involve technology.
Maybe China? Maybe South America! |
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Curry
Joined: 19 Mar 2013
Posts: 184
Location: Arizona, USA
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| Posted: Sat Aug 16, 2014 01:59 |
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Isn't it interesting that we're fed propaganda about each others country, yet instead of asking someone how their country runs or how we think of our governments, people resort to using nationality as a trigger word to put each other down?
I have always found it odd. So it always makes me happy when people can simply talk without those barriers.
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