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freaky
Joined: 02 Nov 2005
Posts: 476
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 Posted: Fri Sep 01, 2006 18:51 |
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Think i missed an entire discussion..but what is wrong with leather?
Fake leather...the matereal does not breath...makes you sticky and jucky!
I cannot imagine jk had a sticky and jucky jacked in mind.
And the idea to buy Hugo Boss and it being NOT leather 
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Deja
Joined: 05 Jun 2006
Posts: 650
Location: Turin, Italy
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| Posted: Fri Sep 01, 2006 21:02 |
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right!!
well probably is me that after reading JMQ lyrics expect samething better than animal skin from the singer collection 
never mind I'm a bit funny 
DejaVere
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funkadelic
Joined: 13 Mar 2006
Posts: 73
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| Posted: Fri Sep 01, 2006 21:34 |
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| Deja wrote: |
right!!
well probably is me that after reading JMQ lyrics expect samething better than animal skin from the singer collection
never mind I'm a bit funny
DejaVere |
hahaha - you are SO right!!!
lol - but then again leather isn't that bad (if you eat meat) is it?
cos they use those cows anyway... i think
(after practically living on a farm thats the impression i got anyway lol)
so yeah - the real leather thing don't bother me really
but yeah - i think a futuristic type material woulda been funnier
but maybe wouldn't have sold as much hahaaaa
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Deja
Joined: 05 Jun 2006
Posts: 650
Location: Turin, Italy
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| Posted: Fri Sep 01, 2006 22:18 |
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Right we all wear leather ( Adidas, that is even worse 'cause they're made in Vietnam and I can only immagine who make them and how are made!!)...and we or I, eat meat ...the difference is probably that I've never made a song called emergency on planet earth, planet home.... and so on!!
to make it short... if U make me understand U care of something..I cannot stay quiet while U behave exaclty the opposite!!! Right??
I'm not questioning about what he should do, his business, but I feel like a "sheep" if I drink everything without any filter like if it was gold!!
and than is a metter of coherence!!
Nite
DejaVere
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jamirokaki
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Joined: 29 Jan 2003
Posts: 3472
Location: basque country
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| Posted: Sat Sep 02, 2006 10:09 |
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i don't think we have to be that hipocrites, i'm sure most of us use leather, eats animals etc....
...leather is not fur...
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freaky
Joined: 02 Nov 2005
Posts: 476
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| Posted: Sat Sep 02, 2006 14:57 |
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With fur, the animals are breeded just for their furry skin.
With cows , we eat the meat, use the bones for glue, parts of medicin surroundings (or other stuff) and the skin we make leather out of it.
It is not like they take the skin and throw away the cow!
Every part of that cow wil be used.
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CosmicMouse
Jamirotalk mum
Joined: 10 Feb 2002
Posts: 4821
Location: Germany
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| Posted: Sat Sep 02, 2006 15:08 |
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| freaky wrote: |
With fur, the animals are breeded just for their furry skin.
With cows , we eat the meat, use the bones for glue, parts of medicin surroundings (or other stuff) and the skin we make leather out of it.
It is not like they take the skin and throw away the cow!
Every part of that cow wil be used. |
One question: So, if we'd use the whole "material" of that little furry animal - not only its skin but also the bones and make burgers out of its meat.. then it would be ok to wear fur???
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funkmaster
Site Admin
Joined: 10 Feb 2002
Posts: 118
Location: Hannover/Germany
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| Posted: Sat Sep 02, 2006 16:02 |
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Ugh, we're getting slightly offtopic now, but - if it would be my decision - I wouldn't support anything that exploits animals, coz I believe we don't have the right to.
I understand, what freaky means - it was my way of thinking until few months ago. Being a vegetarian I thought: why not purchasing this pair of leather shoes ... - the cow is dead anyways!?
But today I've learned, that these secondary products are, what the meat industry makes profitable so much!! And therefore, purchasing leather products makes me responsible for all the horror our animals must sustain! (Visit PETA, if you are interested in more information and strong enough to view some really arousing stuff)
The only conclusion I could draw is, to stop supporting this "industry without mercy" by not purchasing any of their meat-jelly-skin-products anymore. But, of course this is only my personal decision and I would not urge anybody to think the same way ... (on the other hand you shouldn't think, that this tolerant attitude could liberate you from your personal responsibility! But this you must negotiate yourself with your heart and your soul.)
However, as far as I know Jay is not a vegetarian and therefore it is not surprising that a part of his collection contents leather. So, we can't allege that he is inconsequent. And I even wouldn't brisk up, if he would support fur stuff, because it still wouldn't be inconsequent!
| CosmicMouse wrote: |
| One question: So, if we'd use the whole "material" of that little furry animal - not only its skin but also the bones and make burgers out of its meat.. then it would be ok to wear fur??? |
I like this question, honey!! At the end of the day for the animals it is quite equal, whether they are tortured and killed for their meat and/or their skin or fur or whatever. For the animals it makes no difference - and for us it should be neither.
Miran |
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freaky
Joined: 02 Nov 2005
Posts: 476
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| Posted: Sat Sep 02, 2006 16:15 |
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Cosmic you got me with that question!
There is no good answer = there?
(at least not for a meat eater like me)
If we used the animal, and not only for burgers, i tend to say yes.
But to see the marked being overflowed with the strangest kinds of meat...NO!!!
But to say no to my leather shoes and no to my meat dinner...i like it to much to say NO to. Maybe that is cruel, but honest.
Think i got used to cow, pork and chicken etc. and accepted that fact.
But i do say NO to alligator leather and stuff.
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funkadelic
Joined: 13 Mar 2006
Posts: 73
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| Posted: Sat Sep 02, 2006 16:38 |
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eating meat and using the animals' skins for clothing etc is perfectly normal and a part of nature! we have been doing it for millenia (sp?)
i think its the conditions of the animals that trouble people.
but not all animals are treated badly!
its a minority that get treated badly!
but thats the things we hear about through the media
like ever
we don't hear about firemen rescuing cats - we hear about wars!!
anyway...
maybe hugo boss ONLY uses the bestly (is that a word) treated cows, who lived a happy life, full of love
and thats why the leather is high quality
or maybe...
Jay doesn't like to think about it as in depth as we all are
(so he doesnt feel as bad when he has his tea tonight like i am now   )
lol
maybe we can talk about the nice shade of green in that jacket now?!?!
its like grass green - lovely!
and isnt his hair looking nice too?!?!
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CosmicMouse
Jamirotalk mum
Joined: 10 Feb 2002
Posts: 4821
Location: Germany
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| Posted: Sat Sep 02, 2006 16:53 |
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| freaky wrote: |
Think i got used to cow, pork and chicken etc. and accepted that fact.
But i do say NO to alligator leather and stuff. |
.. and that's something I really find contradictory or even absurd. Why making a difference between those animals? What makes an alligator more worth staying alife than a cow?
I kinda can understand the argument from people who say: "I don't want to miss my meals with meat and my leather couch and shoes. It's cruel somehow that animals have to be tortured and die but my own needs are more important."
But I can not understand why those people damn the killing of other animals like snakes, alligators or minks (for example). That's not logical.
An animal is an animal - a creature of nature, god or whatever you believe in. Either you think it is worth to save it, or you think it is not worth. But why dividing animals in different groups: "can be tortured for human needs" or "has to be protected from cruelty".
Here an interesting little article about leather, I found:
(I recommend to follow the links in the texts to get deeper into the topic...really interesting!)
| Quote: |
WHAT'S WRONG WITH LEATHER?
Leather may be made from cows, pigs, goats, and sheep; exotic animals like alligators, ostriches, and kangaroos; and even dogs and cats, who are slaughtered for their meat and skins in China, which exports their skins around the world. Since leather is normally not labeled, you never really know where (or whom) it came from.
Most of the millions of animals slaughtered for their skin endure the horrors of factory farming before being shipped to slaughter, where many are skinned alive. Buying leather directly contributes to factory farms and slaughterhouses since skin is the most economically important byproduct of the meat-packing industry. Leather is also no friend of the environment since it shares all the environmental destruction of the meat industry, in addition to the toxins used in tanning.
With every pair of leather shoes that you buy, you sentence an animal to a lifetime of suffering. Instead, you can choose from hundreds of styles of nonleather shoes, clothing, belts, bags, and wallets. Fashion should be fun, not fatal! Read more about the cruelty of the leather industry.
source: http://www.cowsarecool.com/theFacts.asp |
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CosmicMouse
Jamirotalk mum
Joined: 10 Feb 2002
Posts: 4821
Location: Germany
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| Posted: Sat Sep 02, 2006 17:18 |
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one thing to add: I want to point out that I am not judging anyone in his decision how to handle this subject matter... I just wanted to show the contradiction I always detect in those arguments when it comes to the topic "animal rights".
I was (and maybe still am) acting inconsistant myself. I am still searching my way to handle this subject in my everyday life and to act in a way I can stand for with my own morals and ethics. Not easy. But I feel I am going into the right direction for my own peace with nature.
Mouse
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jamirokaki
Expert
Joined: 29 Jan 2003
Posts: 3472
Location: basque country
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| Posted: Sat Sep 02, 2006 17:27 |
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| CosmicMouse wrote: |
| freaky wrote: |
With fur, the animals are breeded just for their furry skin.
With cows , we eat the meat, use the bones for glue, parts of medicin surroundings (or other stuff) and the skin we make leather out of it.
It is not like they take the skin and throw away the cow!
Every part of that cow wil be used. |
One question: So, if we'd use the whole "material" of that little furry animal - not only its skin but also the bones and make burgers out of its meat.. then it would be ok to wear fur??? |
the way they torture and kill to get the fur is just inadmisible.
i'm an animal defender myself (i not even KILL moskitos and other bugs just becouse they are ANNOYING, thinng that i'm sure other people do) , but i'm not vegetarian, and i see natural to eat other animals (as a animal myself) and honestly i don't see anything bad in using the sking of animals wich are been KILLED for EATING.
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jamirokaki
Expert
Joined: 29 Jan 2003
Posts: 3472
Location: basque country
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| Posted: Sat Sep 02, 2006 17:30 |
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...and of course i'm not agree in KILLING animals for EATING if this animals are in danger of extintion...
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funkmaster
Site Admin
Joined: 10 Feb 2002
Posts: 118
Location: Hannover/Germany
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| Posted: Sat Sep 02, 2006 18:17 |
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| jamirokaki wrote: |
| i'm an animal defender myself (i not even KILL moskitos and other bugs just becouse they are ANNOYING, thinng that i'm sure other people do) , but i'm not vegetarian, and i see natural to eat other animals (as a animal myself) and honestly i don't see anything bad in using the sking of animals wich are been KILLED for EATING. |
 He, he ... - I like human beings (indeed we are very special animals) ... - but I like human meat, too. Is it okay to KILL human beings FOR EATING? (Of course just kidding!)
Nothing personal, jamirokaki - you just wrote "as a animal myself" and I simply couldn't resist  In my eyes all of our justifications for eating meat appear very absurd, if examined a bit closer. For me the most honest and understandable "excuse" is, what funkadelic said: It's common - and most of us don't know it another way.
However, I am a human being and of course "we are animals - animals are eating animals" does not count for me. Animals can not serve as a model for human ethics.
But the mosquito thing ... - I do it the same way! And I think, Meike sometimes condemns me for that 
| Quote: |
| ...and of course i'm not agree in KILLING animals for EATING if this animals are in danger of extintion... |
Look, each individual animal, each individual live is being extincted, if we decide to eat that steak or meat-burger. The species is not so important (it's comparable with abstract constructs like society, nationality and so on) - it's the individual live that counts! The individual animal feels, suffers, despairs. The individual cow feels grief, if we take its baby-calf from it. I don't abstain from hitting the nose of a man, because there aren't so many of his nationality on earth. I simply don't do it. |
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