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High Times
Joined: 25 Oct 2004
Posts: 744
Location: music written by JK/Toby Smith
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 Posted: Thu Jan 12, 2006 13:10 |
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Soul Education woodstock'99 - 2 guitars?
Soul Education woodstock'99 - 2 guitars?
hi guys,
if you have "soul education" from '99 woodstock
(available on mtey's site http://mtey.com/bootlegs/Synk/woodstock_99/ )
i dont understand why in the beginning there are 2 guitars sounding
at the same time - i mean the very beginning of the song.
Simon plays one single note for a long time and at the same time second guitar plays a riff together with Nick's bass...
i dont understand how it could be done, its very strange..
i dont have video version, so if you have one, plese check
and tell me how they made it, ok
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freeetz!
Joined: 31 Jan 2003
Posts: 351
Location: Ukraine
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| Posted: Thu Jan 12, 2006 17:03 |
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I can't think of any other explanation, but...
they had two guitarists on stage! 
The only track I heard from Woodstock is Miss You. I think it has two guitars as well. I used to think it was Ronnie Wood (the guitar playing on this track sounds very much like the version from Jools Holland's Millennium performed with Mr. Wood) but I haven't found any proof of this. |
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jamirokaki
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Joined: 29 Jan 2003
Posts: 3472
Location: basque country
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| Posted: Thu Jan 12, 2006 19:17 |
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they never had 2 guitarist on tour
i only know one song played live with 2 guitarist and it's miss you with ronnie woods in a tv show (millenium show with jools holand)
i (still) don't have the video of woodstock, but i don't hear nothing like 2 guitars in soul education.
i only hear the note nick is playing
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monisum
Joined: 30 Jun 2004
Posts: 1327
Location: Germany
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| Posted: Thu Jan 12, 2006 19:21 |
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High times, I have the video of that gig on a low quality dvd 
But I went through the song soul education in slow motion moves....
and I saw no second guitar player...at leat not visible on stage. Only the band spread on stage and two guys with trumpet and saxophone in the back row...
May be someone was hidden deeper in the back or was it played from tape????? 
The stage was quite big, a lot of people around and at the sites of stage, taking pics, moving, doing "something"...
Think I am no big help.Ayway I have to find a good audio, to hear what you heard to find out more....but I am sure your ears are better than mine in hearing that details  
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freeetz!
Joined: 31 Jan 2003
Posts: 351
Location: Ukraine
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| Posted: Thu Jan 12, 2006 20:19 |
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| jamirokaki wrote: |
| i only know one song played live with 2 guitarist and it's miss you with ronnie woods in a tv show (millenium show with jools holand) |
Actually, Ronnie Wood also played with them at London's Shepherds Bush Empire in December 1999 on "Miss You" and "Deeper Underground".
I downloaded "Soul Education" from Woodstock and from Toronto... it really sounds as if there are two guitars playing in the intro... I dunno how they did that with one guitarist on stage.  |
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jamirokaki
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Joined: 29 Jan 2003
Posts: 3472
Location: basque country
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| Posted: Thu Jan 12, 2006 20:54 |
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i didn't know about ronnie playing with them there. good to know
the sound you hear as a second guitar can't be done with a keyboard? in 99 jami used 2 keyboard players on stage (toby smith and simon carter)
i think it's the only explanation, except simon katz is that good that can do 2 guitar riffs at the same time (wich i can believe from him hehee)
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High Times
Joined: 25 Oct 2004
Posts: 744
Location: music written by JK/Toby Smith
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| Posted: Fri Jan 13, 2006 06:11 |
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hi monika, freetz, jamirokaki.
i think that that repeated note i spoke about
can be something from Toby or Simon Carter or it was guitar
sampled by DJ D-Zire..
but sound is so close to guitar! |
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LLCoolJR
Officer & Expert
Joined: 23 Aug 2004
Posts: 1431
Location: The Netherlands
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| Posted: Fri Jan 13, 2006 09:37 |
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I do have the video, I'll check it out later. I can't imagine there was a second guitar on the stage... |
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funkynic
Joined: 13 Feb 2005
Posts: 398
Location: Buenos Aires Funkcity!
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| Posted: Fri Jan 13, 2006 18:23 |
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Hey guys this is what happens...... Toby played the "tiriririririririr" note on his sithesizer or however you write that..... and then when jay goes "i never HAd".... when he says HAD which goes with the first beat of that segment simon starts to do the riff
You can see it on the Live at BUenos Aires 1999 video..... I saw it live
ok heres the pic wher you si this... with his right hand he touches that single note and with the piano he has below he plays the chords... when jay says HAD he switches to play the chords in the one below.... on the single note he plays he has a delay efect so he plays TI and when he lets go the RI comes TIriTIriTIri and so on...
OK Got to leave now... hope that was usefull!!!
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Last edited by funkynic on Fri Jan 13, 2006 18:36; edited 2 times in total |
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Dye
Correspondent & Expert
Joined: 16 Nov 2003
Posts: 5146
Location: Planet Home; Buenos Aires, Argentina
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| Posted: Fri Jan 13, 2006 18:27 |
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Yeah, is that.
Remember the first live video of 'Starchild' we saw? Matt plays the part of a guitar. Is something similar to the 'Soul Education' thing.
D! (dyego) |
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High Times
Joined: 25 Oct 2004
Posts: 744
Location: music written by JK/Toby Smith
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| Posted: Sun Jan 15, 2006 19:49 |
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thanks!!!!
on that pic Toby is playing his Hohner Cavinet "Duo".
i know that hohner clavinets sometimes sound quite close
to guitar... but for the first time i hear that hohner's sound is so much similar to electric guitar. i dont know how Toby made such cool sound.
its cool to know that fact about hohner clavinets. |
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Cheeba vibe
Joined: 23 Jan 2006
Posts: 140
Location: Florence Italy
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| Posted: Mon Jan 23, 2006 14:52 |
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...for sure, it was an Hohner Clavinet filtered by a wha-wha or a filter.
That kind of keyboard was able (or maybe "created for...") to reproduce or double an electric guitar. Remember "Superstitious" by S.Wonder? Non-expert ears may image that riff played by a funky guitar but....it's the wonderful Hohner (played with a special and difficult technique...) |
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funkynic
Joined: 13 Feb 2005
Posts: 398
Location: Buenos Aires Funkcity!
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| Posted: Tue Jan 24, 2006 00:12 |
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| Diego// Twenty Zero Three wrote: |
Yeah, is that.
Remember the first live video of 'Starchild' we saw? Matt plays the part of a guitar. Is something similar to the 'Soul Education' thing.
D! (dyego) |
what mat plays in starchild is the same line the bass does, not the guitarr  ... but anyway in soul education toby did play that single note
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High Times
Joined: 25 Oct 2004
Posts: 744
Location: music written by JK/Toby Smith
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| Posted: Tue Jan 24, 2006 13:32 |
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| Cheeba vibe wrote: |
...for sure, it was an Hohner Clavinet filtered by a wha-wha or a filter.
That kind of keyboard was able (or maybe "created for...") to reproduce or double an electric guitar. Remember "Superstitious" by S.Wonder? Non-expert ears may image that riff played by a funky guitar but....it's the wonderful Hohner (played with a special and difficult technique...) |
hi mate!
I am one of the biggest Toby's fans and
its so cool we can discuss this amazing instrument which i love very much.
Toby is the best hohner clavinet performer in the world!!!
this is my thread about Toby's model of hohner clavinet which i posted some time ago -
http://www.jamirotalk.net/forum/viewtopic.php?t=2995&start=0&postdays=0&postorder=asc&highlight=
Actually i know very much about hohner clavinets, and i use it for recording my music.
You will be surprised but Hohner clavinet wasnt created to sound like a guitar. Ernst Zacharias, invented electric keyboard called The Hohner Clavinet essentially designed to replicate the sound of a real live Clavichord without the Clavichord’s inherent wimpiness. And the first Ernst Zacharias invention was the Cembalet in the 1950’s which was intended to be a portable, amplifiable version of the Cembalo, or Harpsichord.
But if you ever played a hohner clavinet, you know that pure hohner clavinet ("D6"," E7", and "Duo" model's clean sound i mean without adding pianet in mix) doesnt sound like that place from Soul Education.
Its impossible to mix up Hohner clavinet sound with guitar and its easy to recognize Clavinet on all the tracks mentioned in this topic - "Starchild" and "Superstition" - these are cool examples of
usual clavinet's sound even though on both tracks it is effected.
The thing is Toby used a Mutron envelope filter with hohner clavinet
to have sort of "bow-wow"sound. And i never heard Hohner clavinet high notes played with envelope filter...
Besides Toby's model called "Duo" apart from clavinet sound has "pianet" sound in it - also an invention of Ernst Zacharias.
when you play "Duo" model you can play clean clavinet or pianet sounds or mix them in different proportions.
Unfortunately i never played "Duo" as well as pianet keyboard which is also available as a separate keyboard - some say pianet sounds a little bit similar to rhodes piano - though theres a huge difference between rhodes and pianet. but for me pianet sound is still a secret cause i have never played a real pianet, some people say pianet doesnt sound like rhodes at all - other tone, no attack, etc.
i think Toby used mutrone envelope filter with hohner clavinet in that place of "SE" and maybe even mixed a little bit of pianet to it -
i dont know because i never tried both envelope filter and pianet.
So what i want to say, i dont know how Toby has done that amazing sound on his hohner clavinet, because usual clean tone of Hohner
doesnt sound like that place from "soul education" - more than that i have never heard exactly that sound of clavinet before and i bet you never heard similar sound as well, anyway if you did - so let me know where, ok.
Last edited by High Times on Tue Jan 24, 2006 17:23; edited 1 time in total |
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Cheeba vibe
Joined: 23 Jan 2006
Posts: 140
Location: Florence Italy
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| Posted: Tue Jan 24, 2006 15:17 |
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...probably I expressed myself in a bad way (my English is not very perfect...). The clavinet, in the beginning, was however used in order to replace the guitar. That's a fact. Then it became one instrument characterized from its own sound. However I duck to therefore much wisdom...
One thing, however: for me, the best clavinet player remains Stevie Wonder. Toby, a beatiful player too, but he gives the top on the Fender Rhodes piano. |
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