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John Doggett
Joined: 22 Jan 2010
Posts: 545
Location: France
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 Posted: Sun Sep 12, 2010 22:40 |
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The great influence of Al Stone on Jamiroquai
Hello folks,
I don't know if we've been already talking about a great man in the shadow of the band, let's talk about Al Stone!
He mixed albums 2-3-4 and co produced many tracks (and Travelling without moving!)
So, I've got some questions (in particularly to the experts!) :
Why did he left the band in 2000? (replaced by Rick Pope, producer of A Funk Odyssey)
Do you think that the Jamiroquai sound definately changed because of his departure? (I think so)
What are you thinking about?
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FunkyVibes
Joined: 28 Oct 2009
Posts: 364
Location: Eugene, Oregon
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| Posted: Mon Sep 13, 2010 06:48 |
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I really like the production he did on ROTSC & TWM. I like the warmth & deepness he added to the tracks. You can turn the volume way up and the sound kind of expands and it sounds very natural... very analog.
Synkronized is where production started going wrong, imo. (But really, that's where everything started going wrong.) To me, the production has always sounded kind of cheap... tinny... like the music was filtered through a computer. And apparently that's exactly what happened according to this article about the production techniques used on Synk.
After the whole Symphonized debacle, JK & Al decided to experiment with computers to help produce the Synk album. On the plus side, that experimentation resulted in Supersonic, a track I really like... but the production still suffers from a cheapness in the sound. Listen to Deeper Underground. It has a gritty sound, but that sound has good warmth & depth. Listen to Planet Home in comparison, and you'll notice a difference.
The production used on Symphonized would have most likely been similar to the production used on Deeper Underground. I like the mixing done on Synk, though. Just the end result of the whole sound is substandard. After Al Stone left Jamiroquai, however, the subsequent albums suffered from the syndrome that plagues most pop albums... the wall of sound.
I don't like the way AFO or Dynamite were produced. AFO really fatigues the ears. The sound is just too lound and upfront. I get a headache if I listen to AFO uninterrupted for too long. Also, Jay's voice sucks on that album. He sounds cracked out. Dynamite is easier on the ears, but the production is very cheap & cheesy in some cases, and these tracks also lack good depth. They still sound too upfront and shallow. FJLIS and Dynamite in particular could've sounded way better had a superior producer, such as Al Stone, been hired. Jay's voice also sounds very overproduced & fatigued.
Lastly, the High Times Compilation sounds like crap, imo. To me, it just sounds like someone at Sony dicked around on a computer for 30 minutes and compressed the music to make it sound louder. Presto... remastered for 2006!!!!
I don't know why Al Stone was dropped from Jamiroquai, but I'm guessing it was probably related to the poor sales of Synk, and the desire for the next album to sound different and be successful. |
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John Doggett
Joined: 22 Jan 2010
Posts: 545
Location: France
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| Posted: Mon Sep 13, 2010 13:16 |
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Thanks for your analyze FunkyVibes, it's very interesting, almost about the warmth sound: I love Synkronized but I bound to confess that the sound is a bit cold (that's not the case in live, check the marvellous version of Planet Home at the Tokyo Dome!).
A funk Odyssey is too cold (both on mixing and in the lyrics) and Dynamite is over procuced (don't give hate a chance).
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"People find it's hard to be strong, cos' they don't know where they're coming from" |
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Tiffinypie
Joined: 09 Jan 2008
Posts: 638
Location: In Jay's mind. ;-) 2 cute 4 U
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| Posted: Mon Sep 13, 2010 20:14 |
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| FunkyVibes wrote: |
| I To me, it just sounds like someone at Sony dicked around on a computer for 30 minutes and compressed the music to make it sound louder. Presto... remastered for 2006!!!! |
 well said
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Dye
Correspondent & Expert
Joined: 16 Nov 2003
Posts: 5146
Location: Planet Home; Buenos Aires, Argentina
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| Posted: Mon Sep 13, 2010 20:21 |
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Yes, definetely. I agree.
Although I don't particularly feel the same way about Synkronized, I really like how that album sounds. Not AFO. The bass and the programmed drums are too loud. And Dynamite, the production is better, but his voice is too high.
Jay perfectly said in the recent biography, that the 'cut & paste' in D made it sound sterile. And I have to agree. |
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jamfan2005
Joined: 08 Dec 2005
Posts: 332
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| Posted: Mon Sep 13, 2010 22:50 |
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| Dye wrote: |
Jay perfectly said in the recent biography, that the 'cut & paste' in D made it sound sterile. And I have to agree. |
It's crazy how this stuff comes up so far after the album release. Whenever they are promoting it though they say how different and great the "new" sound is.  |
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Dye
Correspondent & Expert
Joined: 16 Nov 2003
Posts: 5146
Location: Planet Home; Buenos Aires, Argentina
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| Posted: Tue Sep 14, 2010 02:13 |
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| jamfan2005 wrote: |
| Dye wrote: |
Jay perfectly said in the recent biography, that the 'cut & paste' in D made it sound sterile. And I have to agree. |
It's crazy how this stuff comes up so far after the album release. Whenever they are promoting it though they say how different and great the "new" sound is. |
Well, it's kinda obvious. It happens to me, whenever I design something new, I think is the best, or one of the best things I've done.
You always look to top yourself, in whatever you do. There was a time where they were happy with Dynamite, and they released it. Now, looking things back, you might change your mind.
Without going to far away, I thought Dynamite was awesome, and now I don't really think so. |
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bigball123
Joined: 17 May 2009
Posts: 108
Location: Los Angeles, CA
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| Posted: Tue Sep 14, 2010 07:33 |
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Agreed. Al Stones' contributions to the 'True Jamiroquai Sound' that we all love, were massive, but on a bigger scale, the departure of Stuart is really where the band started their 'decline'. And I use that word loosely, due to Jamiroquai still sounding better to music that comes out at the same time as one of their records. But starting in 98' with Synk, they replaced Stu's classic bass playing, with Toby trying to replicate a new bass sound on the Keys. To me, this was a failure, and is why Synk & AFO are the lowest rated for me. Bringing in the new member for the 05' album was greatly needed, and tracks like 'Dynamite' & 'Time Won't Wait' show why. Truth be told, we know we cannot expect the magic of the early to mid 90's, Martin Shaw on Trumpet, 6 piece horn sections, DJ scratching etc. but we have to embrace the 'new' sound, and just love them for what they are. Here's to hoping all of the 90's unreleased material will see the light of day some day.  |
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robotscantadlib
Joined: 28 May 2005
Posts: 242
Location: san francisco
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| Posted: Wed Sep 15, 2010 22:42 |
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I think a huge difference was the recording styles of the albums and the gear being used. Al Stone seemed to do things in an old-school way that gave us that 'could've been made in the late 70s' vibe, vs. the over-compressed/loud recent album..plus he used tape & old school analog gear, and recorded the band live.
Funny that everyone knocks it - I actually think Synkronized sounds great for the most part. Best of the old and new. ROTSC has that vintage vibe, but a lot of the tracks could have used some more time at the mixing desk. AFO sounds fine to me (it's on the electronic-sounding end of the spectrum, but I love electro-funk), but Dynamite sounds like pure cheese most of the time. The digital recordings + cheap faux-analog/VST synth sounds + quantizing the hell out of everything + Jay's voice sounding weak + bad songs/song-writing totally put me off of that album. It's like they cooked the groove out of it..The imperfections are what makes a song funky. Seems to be the way the new tracks are too, unfortunately. We'll see how the rest of the new album sounds though. |
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mr.az
Joined: 01 Sep 2005
Posts: 2421
Location: rallying
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| Posted: Thu Sep 16, 2010 23:02 |
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He made enough to deserve this thread
all the albums and help he brings to the band was enough good to be reminded.
somebody know what he's doing now?
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Gonza-Arg
Joined: 27 Mar 2005
Posts: 1680
Location: Argentina
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| Posted: Fri Sep 17, 2010 00:55 |
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I agree too. BUT if the songwriting is good, the later mix of the songs can't destroy the song completely. If the song is cheap, the mix can't make it better than what it is.
Take the album "Let it Be" by the Beatles, for example. As far as I know, the album was produced by Phil Spector (George Martin had produced all the previous albums, but Lennon decided to hire Spector to produce the album with the takes left over from previous sessions). The result wasn't nowhere near as good as other Beatles albums, and Phil Spector was blamed for this -mostly by McCartney- (Spector had used the"wall of sound" method, backing vocals, etc).
But on the other hand, it IS true that the Beatles were not in the best mood when they recorded the songs that later became part of Let It Be (they were all fighting with each other).
Now, I'm not saying Jay and the guys were fighting during the writing/recording of the last albums, or that the songs are "bad/cheap", not at all... But what I'm trying to say is that the producer is important, but I don't think he is responsible for the new directions the band has taken
Maybe they changed their producer because Stone wasn't they right one for the new style they wanted to do; and I don't think bringing him back would make a difference, cause they changed their style -whether some of us like it or not-, not just their way of making an album. |
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robotscantadlib
Joined: 28 May 2005
Posts: 242
Location: san francisco
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| Posted: Fri Sep 17, 2010 03:32 |
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| mr.az wrote: |
He made enough to deserve this thread
all the albums and help he brings to the band was enough good to be reminded.
somebody know what he's doing now? |
He produced part of my friend's cousin's funk band's album - they're an Icelandic band called Jagúar. Aside from that, looks like he's done quite a bit.
http://www.smoothside.com/stone/index.html
http://www.discogs.com/artist/Al+Stone |
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iranterres
Joined: 02 Apr 2008
Posts: 422
Location: Brasil
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| Posted: Fri Sep 17, 2010 12:44 |
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After al stone gone things changed heavily. Al stone gone, katz gone, de-zire gone, wallis gone, and brass section gone.
Maybe jay wanted to make a move? 
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John Doggett
Joined: 22 Jan 2010
Posts: 545
Location: France
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| Posted: Fri Sep 17, 2010 20:34 |
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| iranterres wrote: |
After al stone gone things changed heavily. Al stone gone, katz gone, de-zire gone, wallis gone, and brass section gone.
Maybe jay wanted to make a move? |
Someone knows why in 2000 there was lot of departures?
The Funk Odyssey direction explains really all that?
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"People find it's hard to be strong, cos' they don't know where they're coming from" |
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Jamarcus
Joined: 10 Feb 2009
Posts: 142
Location: California
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| Posted: Fri Sep 17, 2010 21:13 |
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self censorship
Last edited by Jamarcus on Sun Oct 03, 2010 07:13; edited 2 times in total |
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