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Andrew
Joined: 26 Oct 2004
Posts: 1015
Location: Australia
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 Posted: Sat Feb 14, 2009 10:29 |
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It seems my poor attempts at causing offence need some work...
I'll have to try harder next time! 
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CosmicMouse
Jamirotalk mum
Joined: 10 Feb 2002
Posts: 4821
Location: Germany
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| Posted: Sat Feb 14, 2009 10:56 |
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 ..hm, I don't get it. |
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ririka
Joined: 10 Apr 2007
Posts: 625
Location: Japan
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| Posted: Sat Feb 14, 2009 11:36 |
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Human beings are not special animals.
I know that always some spiritual ppl call "soul" about the brain function.
I always prefer the truth to the delusion.
Anyway, its only my opinion.
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Seb
Joined: 13 Dec 2006
Posts: 542
Location: France
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| Posted: Sat Feb 14, 2009 11:39 |
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Andrew: you say that Buddhism is a religion and then you dare talk about stupidity? Funny. Get knowledge and education before playing the genius.
Ririka: I'm very disapointed by the violent way you talk about religious people.
From Wikipedia:
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Religious views
For more details on this topic, see Charles Darwin's views on religion.
Darwin’s family tradition was nonconformist Unitarianism, while his father and grandfather were freethinkers, and his baptism and boarding school were Church of England.[11] When going to Cambridge to become an Anglican clergyman, he did not doubt the literal truth of the Bible.[16] He learnt John Herschel's science which, like William Paley’s natural theology, sought explanations in laws of nature rather than miracles and saw adaptation of species as evidence of design.[18][19] On the Beagle voyage Darwin looked for "centres of creation" to explain distribution,[39] and related the antlion found near kangaroos to distinct "periods of Creation".[41] He remained quite orthodox and would quote the Bible as an authority on morality.[134]
By his return he was critical of the Bible as history, and wondered why all religions should not be equally valid.[134] In the next few years, while intensively speculating on geology and transmutation of species, he gave much thought to religion and openly discussed this with Emma, whose beliefs also came from intensive study and questioning.[72] The theodicy of Paley and Thomas Malthus vindicated evils such as starvation as a result of a benevolent creator's laws which had an overall good effect. To Darwin, natural selection produced the good of adaptation but removed the need for design,[135] and he could not see the work of an omnipotent deity in all the pain and suffering such as the ichneumon wasp paralysing caterpillars as live food for its eggs.[112] He still viewed organisms as perfectly adapted, and On the Origin of Species reflects theological views. Though he thought of religion as a tribal survival strategy, Darwin still believed that God was the ultimate lawgiver.[136][137]
Darwin continued to play a leading part in the parish work of the local church,[138] but from around 1849 would go for a walk on Sundays while his family attended church.[128] Though reticent about his religious views, in 1879 he responded that he had never been an atheist in the sense of denying the existence of a God, and that generally “an Agnostic would be the more correct description of my state of mind.”[72]
The “Lady Hope Story”, published in 1915, claimed that Darwin had reverted back to Christianity on his sickbed. The claims were refuted by Darwin’s children and have been dismissed as false by historians.[139] His last words were to his family, telling Emma "I am not the least afraid of death – Remember what a good wife you have been to me – Tell all my children to remember how good they have been to me", then as she laid down for a rest, he repeatedly told Henrietta and Francis "It's almost worth while to be sick to be nursed by you".[140] |
End of participation in this topic for me, that's not the spirit of jamirotalk and I'm not here for this.
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ririka
Joined: 10 Apr 2007
Posts: 625
Location: Japan
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| Posted: Sat Feb 14, 2009 12:23 |
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now, the 21st century.
we can get a lot of "scientific knowledge" without "God".
Seb: I did say only the fact. so long.
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CosmicMouse
Jamirotalk mum
Joined: 10 Feb 2002
Posts: 4821
Location: Germany
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| Posted: Sat Feb 14, 2009 12:52 |
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Ririka, let me say something I observed about your comments. It seems that you think that you know THE truth about everything. You are speaking of "facts", then again it is "your opinion". You say "I prefer the truth to the delusion" - I think EVERYONE wants to know the truth. But is there ONE TRUTH? Everyone has his own truth, I think, which depends on things we learned, have read, have experienced. It is very good to not believe every common knowledge (those infos which are spread in medias, common books, especially schoolbooks). We should question everything we hear, because humanity has been manipulated massive times and still is!
So, it is a good thing to try to find out the truth behind everything.
I know that you read lots of books. So, you often learn about a second opinion which might differ from the common opinion, which is good, because it widens your horizon. But, if you look closer there is probably even a third opionion... and a 4th and a 5th and so on.
I, myself, would never claim to know THE TRUTH. Because I cannot know ALL facts, I always see just an extract of the whole, even if I have read 10 books about a topic.
So, I can accept when you say "It's only my opinion", but for me it sounds a bit arrogant when I hear you say that you know the truth. Maybe I got it wrong.
You say, "we can get a lot of "scientific knowledge" without "God"."
I say, we should combine scientific knowledge with spiritualism (detached from religion). They have more in common as you think, and the combination might bring us closer to the truth.
I am interested in Quantumphysics, although I don't really understand it fully. But there are quantum physicists who say they have proven the existence of an undying soul. You don't need to believe in God for this realisation.
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Sandriche
Officer & Jamily Coach
Joined: 07 Oct 2005
Posts: 5564
Location: Austraria
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| Posted: Sat Feb 14, 2009 13:49 |
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great post meike.. 
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"Here it is...there is no way to make it better " |
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ririka
Joined: 10 Apr 2007
Posts: 625
Location: Japan
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| Posted: Sat Feb 14, 2009 15:20 |
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| CosmicMouse wrote: |
You say, "we can get a lot of "scientific knowledge" without "God"."
I say, we should combine scientific knowledge with spiritualism (detached from religion). They have more in common as you think, and the combination might bring us closer to the truth.
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 you mean "spiritualism"... is it "the belief you can communicate with dead man" or "the belief there are heaven&hell after your death"???
if you mean so, you can not combine scientific knowledge with spiritualism.
wow, spiritualism ppl are so  ......
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deesh
Joined: 23 Feb 2002
Posts: 2717
Location: +001
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| Posted: Sat Feb 14, 2009 16:28 |
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It's a shame the reputation that religion gets from a few extremists. Some of you know me on here and have known me and I am happy you judge and interact with me as Deesha the person, not Deesha the Christian, although I am indeed Christian.
xo
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CosmicMouse
Jamirotalk mum
Joined: 10 Feb 2002
Posts: 4821
Location: Germany
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| Posted: Sat Feb 14, 2009 16:47 |
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Ririka, as you love reading and are open-minded, here a book recommendation whichs starts where Richard Dawkins ends.
Healing The Rift
Bridging the Gap between Science & Spirituality
from Leo Kim
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Merging Science & Spirituality
Scientist and biotech executive Leo Kim shared how numerous concepts of 21st-century science are consistent with spiritual ideas.
While he started off skeptical of spirituality, he came to the conclusion that the materialism views held by many scientists such as Richard Dawkins were a kind of "false gospel"-- a dogmatic insistence that the brain and the universe are just material stuff. But now, because of the oddities of quantum phenomena, scientists are having to take on really "out-there" type theories such as parallel universes, added dimensions, string theory, and multiverses because their former equations and assumptions don't fit with the evidence, he noted.
Kim argued the mind has the capability of rewiring the brain, and what really exists in the universe is mind and spirit. In regard to healing methods, he suggested if we could merge new scientific treatments, the powers of the mind, and good nutrition, we'd take a quantum leap forward in health. |
More Info about the book and the author:
http://healingtheriftbook.com/ |
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CosmicMouse
Jamirotalk mum
Joined: 10 Feb 2002
Posts: 4821
Location: Germany
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| Posted: Sat Feb 14, 2009 17:17 |
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A bit more:
When Science meets Sprituality Part 1
(John Hagelin, Ph.D. Professor of Physics)
 http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=WScObbwFGSY
Also interesting in this content: get some information about "Morphogenetic Fields (Rupert Scheldrake)" (use google or youtube for example).
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Andrew
Joined: 26 Oct 2004
Posts: 1015
Location: Australia
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| Posted: Sun Feb 15, 2009 01:53 |
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Umm... Seb, I was actually trying to play the fool, not the genius. 
To be honest I couldn't give a shit what anyone choses to believe in or not. Its none of my business. 
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ririka
Joined: 10 Apr 2007
Posts: 625
Location: Japan
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| Posted: Sun Feb 15, 2009 03:12 |
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I did put them for you all before... http://www.jamirotalk.net/forum/viewtopic.php?t=6996&start=15&PHPSESSID=49176daeee8f85811f0e1668bd2c14d3
 Phantoms in the Brain: Probing the Mysteries of the Human Mind - by V.S.Ramachandran & Sandra Blakeslee
Descartes' Error: Emotion, Reason, and the Human Brain - by Antonio R. Damasio
The Selfish Gene - by Richard Dawkins
Unweaving the Rainbow: Science, Delusion and the Appetite for Wonder - by Richard Dawkins
The Blind Watchmaker: Why the Evidence of Evolution Reveals a Universe Without Design - by Richard Dawkins
A Devil's Chaplain: Reflections on Hope, Lies, Science, and Love - by Richard Dawkins
I think some ppl think "Why this Japanese recommend these books again".
Because I am concerned about "people who believe spiritualism and then who become victims by grifters".
In Japan, there are some grifters of spiritualism, they tricked old ppl out of their money.
& I knew that before some ppl here did hurt a person about abortion.
So, I think I should recommend these books for you all.
If you believe "spiritualism", you might be tricked by grifters one day.
It's only.
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robmcmullan
Soul Continuum
Joined: 25 Jun 2008
Posts: 6
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| Posted: Sun Feb 15, 2009 05:12 |
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I think Andrew's comments are really a shame.
Let's say that hypothetically he said the same things about a particular racial group, for example say that
black people need "a good kicking with a few fatal beatings thrown in for good measure"... then it would be generally considered to be a horrendous thing to say, especially in a public forum.
And then to say basically say that he was joking or just trying to stir people up is also not very forward thinking. I think that the world is at the point where everyone needs to take a personal responsibility to further the evolution of society. And i think you don't contribute to that if you're just writing people off for fun, or when you don't really mean it, or even more so, if you DO actually mean what you say.
I don't think that critisizing people for beliefs or lifestyles that you don't share ever really changes. It always seems to have a lot to do with fear of the unknown, which in the past has been a good survival tool for humans. But now times have changed, there is not so much unknown to be afraid of and people's fears can be used to manipulate them to further powerful people's agendas.
So, i think now the way forward for humanity is about unity, and reinforcing the things about all humans that are the same, rather than trying to fight over the things about us that are different.
In one of his books, the Dalai Lama made a comment to the effect of that as humans our differences are quite insignificant when compared to our similarities.
Peace |
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CosmicMouse
Jamirotalk mum
Joined: 10 Feb 2002
Posts: 4821
Location: Germany
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| Posted: Sun Feb 15, 2009 10:00 |
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| ririka wrote: |
I think some ppl think "Why this Japanese recommend these books again".
Because I am concerned about "people who believe spiritualism and then who become victims by grifters".
In Japan, there are some grifters of spiritualism, they tricked old ppl out of their money.
& I knew that before some ppl here did hurt a person about abortion.
So, I think I should recommend these books for you all.
If you believe "spiritualism", you might be tricked by grifters one day.
It's only.
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I find it good that you are concerned about the people around you and don't want anyone to be tricked. And I see the good intention in Dawkin's books to free people from any kind of religion or faith, considering that there are things going on in religious groups, sects and such kind of groups which do harm to people, or manupilate them.
That's why I see myself absolutely free from any group of confession. So, I appreciate your worries, but you don't need to be concerned (at least) about me because I am far away from joining any group or sect. I don't worship any leader, not even a god.
The conclusions I draw from my believes are doing no harm to anyone, also not to myself.
My life, my actings, my thoughts are charakterized by these basic ideas:
- oneness
- respect for life
- the believe: what I do to others will come back to me, because we are all one - so I am trying to do no harm to anyone or anything.
(The principal of cause and effect)
- the existence of one common consciousness which connects us
- everything is energy, vibration
- I believe that I am here on earth to learn "lessons", to live sometimes several times the same patterns until I learned it.
(Therefore, commiting suicide would for ME never be an option because I believe that I had to deal with the same situations in the next reincarnation anyways. Just to mention an example)
- I see every situation and even crises as a challenge.
As far as I can see, those ideas which I believe in are doing no harm, but let me live a very conscious and aware life, the descisions I make are based on respect and love. I am not easy to manipulate and take responsibility of my life, don't see myself as a victim, but always self-responsible for my life.
@Rob
| robmcmullan wrote: |
| So, i think now the way forward for humanity is about unity, and reinforcing the things about all humans that are the same, rather than trying to fight over the things about us that are different. |
Absolutely agree with this!! 
Mouse |
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