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orientalfolksong
Joined: 07 Jun 2005
Posts: 23
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 Posted: Tue Jun 07, 2005 21:07 |
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Was my review that negative?
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| Since when was Jamiroquai really jazz? It technically cannot in any way be called jazz. The band is made up of great musicians, but if you understood what makes jazz, jazz, you would know that aside from SOME of thier few few instrumentals, that they are generally a very pop oriented group that has funk and (70s)jazz influences |
I'd never say Jamiroquai is a jazz band. But they did have jazz elements in their music before. Now they use some "jazz chords" sometimes. But I don't think it can be called a jazz element, the way it's used. Still, I don't think they have simply funk influence. I think they can be considered a funk band, most definitely, and a funk band that reinvented the style, mostly with TROTSC, which is very less acid jazz (whatever that means) than EOPE.
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| Think, How often does Jam perform ... a jam? How often does Jay sit back and let Rob or whoever play the melody to something like Stillness in Time? They are not that kind of band. People know Jay's voice singing these songs, he's a stylist. |
Haha, now I am confused. How is this a rebutal to what I stated before?
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| Furthermore; original? I think this word is really overrated sometimes. You don't need a deep knowledge of pop music to know that Jamiroquai have always been song oriented, and have always shown, very obviously most times, who thier influences are. |
Sure. When I talked about originality, I never meant to state that Jamiroquai created something absolutely new. (Even because the concept of "absolutely new" makes strange sense, if any). I know they have influences, I know many of them, some that JK mentioned and some that he did not. (Eumir Deodato has a song which JK completely, completely ripped off to write Cosmic Girl). But read me as an extremist. This is not to say, either, that they simply copied everyone. So, I feel that there is originality in Jamiroquai's sound in many aspects. Mostly as for songwritting, even more if you consider the context of pop music today. What bands of such a high profile make chord progressions such as Virtual Insanity's and get away with it, winning awards and selling millions of copies? I think Jamiroquai was unique for that matter.
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| Remember how way back Jay was always called a Steve Wonder rip off ? Well, those people were mostly right. |
No way. Their voice is a bit similar, but in the harmonic field, Jay and Stevie think completely differently. I'd pick many other bands first to name similarities, even in style. Jamiroquai has always been much more upbeat, for instance. And the list could go on.
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| That Late Night Tales he did would be good for some of you. I doubt some people really know it, which is why they have such distorted views of what 'authentic' this or that is. 'Authenticty' being bullshit nowadays anyway, the way most people want to describe it. Some of those old guys are kind of right when they say there's nothing new under the sun. |
I'm glad to say I know a lot more about Jamiroquai's influences than that CD. I hope it's the case of many here, including you. Jamiroquai was the band that opened the path for my passion for music. When I talked about authenticity, I was thinking about a rather straightforward thing, which I'll now explain: once you set a tradition, you may stick to it, or abandon it to venture into new seas or another established tradition. Jamiroquai did this last thing as for songwriting, in many of their latest songs. Of course one can talk about the tradition of not being traditional and so on, but that'll eventually become childish wordplay, haha. The point is that Jamiroquai had a more characteristic sound, that is, people could recognise it even if JK's voice – which plays a damn supporting role in this – wasn't there. And I've heard that from many people that were not fans.
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| Jamiroquai is a favorite of mine because of thier attitude, and because I can see how much they love thier influences, and they take an old style and do it proper. |
Honestly, I think you are underestimating them. If you had a time machine and took many copies of any of their six albums to sell in the 70s, people would be amazed with the sound. Mixing, mastering and electronic matters aside, their style has never been simply taking old style and doing it proper. They've always been far more creative than that. I'll give you a few examples: the guitar solo in Half the Man, the latin break in Scam, the scratches in Hooked Up, the samba in Use The Force, the didjeridoo, the changes in time signature in Light Years... nothing of this sounds like a rip-off of Funkadelic, The Meters, Rice & Beans Orchestra, Head Hunters, James Brown, Michael Jackson, Marvin Gaye, Curtis Mayfield or Johnny Hammond. And if they were more than this before, I do have a reason to be disappointed today.
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| Even way back, really, thier debut was of pop songs.' When ya Gonan Learn?' is an environmentally concerned funky pop song that has a nice brass section and digeridoo for a cool flourish. Do you think the people that come to Jam concerts would want to hear ol' Wallis improv on his Digg for 10 mins? ( I would, but thier music isn't like that, and thats not what fans expect) |
I'm sorry, man, but I really don't care about what the fans expect. I care about what I listen, and I didn't like it, so decided to express my view on it. I see many more reasons for them to change the sound in this direction than only this one. (Selling, record company pressure, keeping fashionable, etc). But this was never a point to discuss, to me. I don't care about their reasons for not writing music as good as they did before, really. Sorry if I sound cold, but I care more about the music itself than anything else.
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| How can you compare? really, you're gonna put virtuoso musicians like Brecker and Lovano or Roy Hargrove or the Marsailis' ( Wynton has a Pulitzer!) with Jamiroquai? Im not saying that they are ' better' than Jam. But I like Jam for a certain reason, and NOT because they are ' better than some of the best jazz of the 90s'. |
Well, I can compare because it's not so distant, is it? I understand people complaining about comparisons between ice cream flavours and architecture, but this is all just music. I really don't like 90s jazz. And still think it's better than most of what was done in our time. To sum up: songrwiting wise, I think the 90s sucked, except by Jamiroquai, Pizzicato 5, Stereolab, The High Llamas and some brazilian obscure artists which most here probably don't know. Also, I'd like to point out that Jamiroquai being better than some of the best jazz of the 90s is no reason for me to like them, it is a reason to acknowledge their music as sofisticated, complex, rich, peculiar and original. (Because most people will think of 90s jazz this way, though I don't think it myself, ha!). I liked Jamiroquai basically because their music made me feel very well, very excited, even in the slower bits. I came to understand, later, that their songs had patterns and that these patterns (in style, song structure, harmony and melody) aren't very common in pop music of our time. So, to feel this way, I had to go to Parliament, Herbie Hancock and Wayne Shorter, for instance – which make me feel far better than Jamiroquai does in most cases, but that's another story.
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| Does Jam play clubs? How many people were at that Verona gig ? They don't fall into the jazz category and if you said that to a pro jazz player that they were better than than ' some of the best of the 90s, you'd be torn apart |
But before that I'd throw a copy of Nefertiti, from Miles Davis, in his head, hahaha. And if he was slow enough, I'd also tell him to improvise upon TWM chord changes rather than those dull Patitucci or Vitous songs, for instance.
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| Can't Jamiroquai be one of my favorites even though I would never consider it as sophisticated as some other stuff? Like for the Same reason 1977 Star Wars is one of my favorites, even though I know its just a Medieval adventure in space? |
Of course yes. I like Justin Timberlake's Rock Your Body, haha! But that is not the point in my post. The point is that they're far more sophisticated than many other acts. And if in the next album they throw four or five Stop Don't Panic's in us, I'll express my disappointment again, if I feel like doing so. They were in one level of complexity and peculiarity and now they are in another. Is complexity alone a criterion for me to like the music? No, no. But isn't it too much coincidence that as their music became simpler and more like much of other acts I tended to like them less?
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| regardless, I think this is a strong album , ANY fan can hear the soul of Jamiroquai in "Seven Days' |
Disagree, and many friends from around the world already pointed out how similar they are to Tahiti 80's new record on this one.
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| and nobody can say Jay is just about girls after listening to "The World That he Wants' |
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Certainly.
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| Also, no one can say Electric Mistress is him sounding like Stevie, ( Jay REALLY likes Basement Jaxx, obviously, but does that make the tune bad?) |
No, of course not. I like this tune a little. I'd much rather listen to Right Here's the Spot, though. But JK's voice really betters everything, so, as I said, I guess I'll be listening to it every now and then.
All in all, I think I see your point: you tried to state Jamiroquai was never that good, but still enjoyable, so there was no reason to be disappointed. Well, I know many more agree with me that Jamiroquai has been better and that there are reasons for disappointment not only with Dynamite, but with at least the last record as well. To give you an example: I bet that there are more guitar licks and variations on Just Another Story than in the whole AFO album, or almost, haha. 
Cheers! |
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moonman
Joined: 03 Jun 2002
Posts: 10
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| Posted: Tue Jun 07, 2005 22:11 |
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hmm, maybe I came off sounding too cynical about them?
I think i sounded like I didn't think Jamiroquai was anything special. Thats not true at all.
Maybe I just don't believe that ROTSC was something that Jam, or any band for that matter, can reproduce easily. I can handle the simple fact that , well, some stuff I might not like as much.
I do dislike the overreactive hate-posts and just plain unpleasentness that Synkronized, AFO and now Dynamite is recieving from certain fans, all saying more or less the same thing. I can FULLY understand the fans not being crazy over Synk or AFO for certain reasons, but some of the hating from people whom its obvious just don't really understand got on my nerves.
I see you know what you're talking about, orientalfolksong, we just differ in our opinions(though I am SO EXCITED you like P5 and STEREOLAB).
I think I just came off sounding like I was discrediting Jamiroquai. They are a favorite of mine. I do believe they are one of the most enjoyable groups of the 90's and thier ability to appeal to the world at large is something few groups can hope to do. I think thats wonderful.
Jay once said to MTV in the US I believe, that his whole goal of Jamiroquai is to have at least 1 song, that will be just a HUGE hit, and 30 years from now, people will hear it say " Oh yeah I remember this tune!". Something eternal. They want like a "Celebration" or "Lovefool" even ( I love that song..). And he said after that , then he will be satisfied. It's something that stuck out. that statement just sets them apart to me. They have a real purpose. They have a true aim.
I love Jamiroquai, and I do feel in many ways they have set themselves apart. I really do think this album is far more satisfying than AFO, and I like it more than Synk too. I don't at all mind the reasons for people disliking it, but the thing I can't stand is when it just seems like they don't really know what they are talking about. I also think a dumb thing to say is ' you're blind and gullible and you'll like anything they do just because you're not as smart as I am to know that such and such is a bad song' or ' im a true fan of Jamiroquai, thats how I know "****" is good or bad.
And true , while i'd rather hear "Right here's the spot" if i want Basement Jaxx's sound, I do enjoy Jam's take on it. |
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Jamirobeto
Joined: 30 Oct 2004
Posts: 258
Location: Lima, Peru
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| Posted: Wed Jun 08, 2005 03:34 |
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Hey guys this debate has become very enjoyable and these last posts from orientalfloksong and moonman were just great and I have learned a lot from them... thanks guys for taking the discussion to another level... I'm afraid I wont be able to write a review as you have done cause I cant find the words in english to express what i wanna say and not repeat what has already been said... I like the album... not as much as the first four but it's good to see that jamiroquai has some of the lost complexity again.
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orientalfolksong
Joined: 07 Jun 2005
Posts: 23
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| Posted: Wed Jun 08, 2005 10:22 |
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Won't wait for you
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| I see you know what you're talking about, orientalfolksong, we just differ in our opinions(though I am SO EXCITED you like P5 and STEREOLAB) |
Haha, cool! I like only post-Dots Stereolab – and I really like'em! – and don't know so much about P5 – even because they have released like eight billion records. Difficult to pick a favourite, but today I'd go for Outer Bongolia from Stereolab and I Hear a Symphony from P5. And yours? By the way, have you ever been to the Stereolab discussion board?
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| Jay once said to MTV in the US I believe, that his whole goal of Jamiroquai is to have at least 1 song, that will be just a HUGE hit, and 30 years from now, people will hear it say " Oh yeah I remember this tune!". Something eternal. They want like a "Celebration" or "Lovefool" even ( I love that song..). And he said after that , then he will be satisfied. It's something that stuck out. that statement just sets them apart to me. They have a real purpose. They have a true aim. |
I remember I thought two things when I saw this (JK had probably been interviewed a long time before): (1) "Then why releasing songs like Twenty Zero One, when you can try harder? People may have liked this song, but no chance it will be remembered like Mercy Mercy Me. Every second screams! Listen to your dreams!". And (2) "Well, but you've already got them! Too Young to Die, Virtual Insanity and Space Cowboy are absolute classics!" – by the way, hell they knew how to choose their singles! |
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Cesar
Joined: 22 Aug 2002
Posts: 181
Location: Rio de Janeiro, Brazil
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| Posted: Wed Jun 08, 2005 14:19 |
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Orientalfolksong and Moonman, if you like Pizzicato Five (whom I adore), you should then check out Swing Out Sister. P5's always being compared to SOS. In fact, critics say they're Japan's answer to SOS. Swing Out Sister released a great cd in 2004 - "Where Our Love Grows". They're currently on tour in the USA, since the record's just been released there.
Orientalfolksong, P5 has many records, but most of them were only released in Japan. P5 has split up and the female vocalist (I've forgotten her name) has gone solo. She appears in 5 cds (I have all of them and like each and every one): Playboy Playgirl, Happy End of The World, Made in The USA, The Sound of Music and Fifth Release from Matador.
The other half of the duo (a man) is now doing the leading vocals, but his voice is just ok. Pizzicato Five has a set of 3 'best of' cds called Pizzicato Five R.I.P. Big Hits & Jet Lags. Maybe you should try to listen to them.
Back to Jamiroquai and Dynamite, I have to say that I love the record. The album flows really well and every day I have a new favourite track. The songs are extremely catchy and if Sony decides to give it a good promotion, we may see Jamiroquai scoring some huge hits worldwide.
Sony Brasil is a disgrace, but with some effort, Jamiroquai may have big hits here again. AFO was completely ignored by Sony and I hope this doesn't happen to this great record too.
Many fans adore EOPE and TROTSC but I think they're deceiving themselves when hoping Jay Kay might come up with another cd in the same style. He won't. So we might as well make good use of what we have, in this case a cd filled with energetic songs and a great number of possible hits. So far, I think Jamiroquai has done no wrong. All their 6 cds have tracks that are way better than the vast majority of chart-topping songs and it's been a great pleasure to follow this incredible band for so long.
My favourite tracks at the moment are 'seven days in sunny june', 'starchild', 'electric mistress' and '(don't) give hate a chance' but the list will probably change very soon. As I said, every day a new song stands out and I get addicted to it.
It's already been said here that '(don't)give hate a chance' sounds a bit like TWM and I agree. I've noticed some other similarities. 'loveblind' sounds so much like Gorillaz, the intro of 'dynamite' reminds me of Black Eyed Peas and FJLIS is totally Seal.
Jamiroquai is definitely back!
I just can't wait for the official release.
Last edited by Cesar on Fri Jun 10, 2005 18:39; edited 1 time in total |
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Guido
Joined: 10 Jan 2004
Posts: 40
Location: The Netherlands, Nijmegen
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| Posted: Thu Jun 09, 2005 09:09 |
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i just listened the samples.
and i hope this isn't said before. i didn't feel much like reading al the pages of this topic so.
but the intro of Time Won't Wait it's just like high times!!!! you can actually sing the lyrics of high times in the intro of Time Won't Wait . just try it! but it's a great track, very funky |
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Catman
Joined: 14 Aug 2004
Posts: 1737
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| Posted: Thu Jun 09, 2005 09:34 |
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| Guido wrote: |
i just listened the samples.
and i hope this isn't said before. i didn't feel much like reading al the pages of this topic so.
but the intro of Time Won't Wait it's just like high times!!!! you can actually sing the lyrics of high times in the intro of Time Won't Wait . just try it! but it's a great track, very funky |
get the entire track... u'll find out thats not the case |
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Guido
Joined: 10 Jan 2004
Posts: 40
Location: The Netherlands, Nijmegen
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| Posted: Thu Jun 09, 2005 16:14 |
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i only was talking about the intro, i'd love to hear the whole track, it's probably great  . i'm going to look for it now  |
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T_R_S
Joined: 02 Jun 2004
Posts: 81
Location: Nørwåy
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| Posted: Fri Jun 10, 2005 20:13 |
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Review time!
Feels Just Like It Should
Love the drums (notice all the reverb on the bass drum!), syncopation is after all what funk is all about. This song I'd call an electro-funkrock type of tune. Many dislike it, but it is a good riff. The dry vocals aren't wonderful, but if people can listen to Dylan....
Dynamite
And so it begins. This album is filled with good disco numbers, and this is no exception. The vocoder reminds me of the Funky Paradise bootleg when Toby sings "I like to play with you, Jay" under the band introduction. Bass and guitar are superfunky, just like on the other disco numbers. Like the BV's, the reverb is nice!
Seven Days In Sunny June
When I first heard it, it gave me a Isley Brothers/Brand New Heavies/Jamiroquai vibe. It's that good.
Electric Mistress
Basement Jaxx.. yes, I think so. Ish. It's very simplistic and minimalistic when compared to the other disco tunes, but I bet it works on a dance floor! Not a bad track, but the least favourite disco tune on Dynamite.
Starchild
FUNKY! Again, like Dynamite, a lovely disco track with great bass and rhythm guitar, vocals, good chords... and clavinet! It's kinda funny, these days we have all these punk/rock/whatever they say they play groups that play with a disco rhythm (e.g. Franz Ferdinand). But they cannot beat Jamiroquai. Anyway, with the whole disco rhythm thing being popular, Jamiroquai should get the credit they deserve.
Loveblind
I really dig the mellow parts, the synthbass parts are a bit Stop Don't Panic... Mind you, they get better as the song progress. I'll probably get used to this song.
Talulah
Late 70's lite-funk ballad. Reminds me of Toto's Georgy Porgy, that kind of vibe. The sax reminds me of Maceo Parker (don't kill me just yet!) when he plays on a ballad on a Bootsy's Rubber Band album.
Don't Give Hate A Chance
Odd intro again, but what can I say? These guys know their disco! The sound is FAT and FULL (goes for all the disco tunes, btw).
World That He Wants
A bit odd, innit? Plenty of strings. I wonder if anybody'll dare sing something this minor key on Idol?
Black Devil Car
Now this! Haha, it sounds like the kind of music I make with my friends for fun. I like this one, funny lyrics and alright riffs. Plenty of surprises too.
Hot Tequila Brown
Err... reminds me of newer acts than Jamiroquai. It isn't bad, just not that interesting. The production is a bit too modern for me, whereas the disco songs are pretty late 70's with some inventive modern touches here and there. Guitar solo is a plus, as solos are all but gone since the Synkronized-era was over.
Time Won't Wait
..and why should it? The Cosmic Girl of the album. The Canned Heat of the album. THE disco tune, IMO. Intro and outro is Funktion-ish, 10/10 for good atmosphere! Great musicianship all over, great production, great songwriting. Lovely!
To sum up:
Adding rock to the sounds is not a bad move.
Adding synth bass is not a bad move. HOWEVER they use it just a bit too much. Less is more.
The bassists used are... stunning! Great bass.
Background vocals work out, I like it.
Drums should be given more tracks, though. With all those four to the floor beats it's hard to know when it's drums and when it's just a machine. Whatever is being used, it sounds alright, though.
Vocals all good except the dry, raspy FJLIS. But I'll get used to it.
Arrangements were good.
Beats AFO by a million times. It's up there with TWM and Synk.
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Dye
Correspondent & Expert
Joined: 16 Nov 2003
Posts: 5146
Location: Planet Home; Buenos Aires, Argentina
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| Posted: Mon Jun 13, 2005 17:36 |
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Hello Jamirotalkers,
I found a new review on Jamiroquai's Feels Just Like It Should:
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Jamiroquai - Feels Just Like It Should (Sony)
2/5
Dave Maass
THE publicity folks tell us that it's a new, harder Jamiroquai. Well, if old, soft Jamiroquai sounded like Stevie Wonder, then this new single sounds like Lenny Kravitz.
Stevie Wonder, Lenny Kravitz. Not an improvement in anyone's books.
Feels Just Like It Should is an apt title, if not meaningless title.
If you like the song, then it's correct. If you don't dig the song, as I don't, then it confirms your belief that Jamiroquai should never have survived the 90s.
Released June 6, 2005. |
D! (dyego) |
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Jaynamite
Joined: 18 Mar 2005
Posts: 81
Location: Costa Rica
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| Posted: Tue Jun 14, 2005 01:05 |
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Have anybody heard those voices???
I mean, if you carefully listen to Dynamite, you'll hear some strange laughing and screams??? Did you heard it??
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There's only once or twice that you're in line with Mr. Moon |
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FRA
Jamily Coach & Correspondent
Joined: 07 Aug 2004
Posts: 5477
Location: London don
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| Posted: Tue Jun 14, 2005 06:39 |
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Jaynamite wrote:
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Have anybody heard those voices???
I mean, if you carefully listen to Dynamite, you'll hear some strange laughing and screams??? Did you heard it??
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yes. u r right!
Cheeba lover 's been the first who noticed it!
There r some girls in the background laughing....
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www.jamitaly.altervista.org |
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Butterfly in June
Joined: 21 May 2002
Posts: 972
Location: Germany
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| Posted: Tue Jun 14, 2005 07:26 |
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| Diego// Twenty Zero Three wrote: |
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Jamiroquai - Feels Just Like It Should (Sony)
2/5
Dave Maass
THE publicity folks tell us that it's a new, harder Jamiroquai. Well, if old, soft Jamiroquai sounded like Stevie Wonder, then this new single sounds like Lenny Kravitz.
Stevie Wonder, Lenny Kravitz. Not an improvement in anyone's books.
Feels Just Like It Should is an apt title, if not meaningless title.
If you like the song, then it's correct. If you don't dig the song, as I don't, then it confirms your belief that Jamiroquai should never have survived the 90s.
Released June 6, 2005. |
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What an idiot!!!  No more words to loose about this bulls... |
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mrdance
Joined: 27 Aug 2004
Posts: 202
Location: South London
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| Posted: Tue Jun 14, 2005 17:47 |
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Mr Maass is slightly overboard there with his last comment. All I can say is...
What a tw@t. |
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Jamirobeto
Joined: 30 Oct 2004
Posts: 258
Location: Lima, Peru
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| Posted: Wed Jun 15, 2005 02:16 |
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| Quote: |
| Mr Maass is slightly overboard there with his last comment |
In a certain point of view he's right... the first jamiroquai never survived the 90s... this is a new jamiroquai with other musicians and he doesn't like it.
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