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| Do you like the "black" rap/R&B? |
| Hell yeh. |
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38% |
[ 15 ] |
| Hell no. |
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25% |
[ 10 ] |
| If you are looking for a description of "disgusting music", this is the place to start. |
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35% |
[ 14 ] |
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| Total Votes : 39 |
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Samiroquai
Joined: 13 Jul 2005
Posts: 1020
Location: North Somerset and Manchester, both in England
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 Posted: Thu Jul 14, 2005 02:07 |
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Hmmmm. Well, I hate gangsta rap and R&B, and I really don't understand how anyone can even dance to it in clubs - it's all too slow (and no I'm not a 120bpm drum and bass fanatic, despite coming from Bristol)!
BUT I DO like Sugarhill Gang, and newer stuff like OutKast, Brooklyn Funk Essentials etc. And there's nothing wrong with sampling IF it's done creatively, in my opinion. AND I really like the way some of today's artists, like Courtney Pine, use hip-hop beats and other stuff and incorporate it into their own music (CP's a British jazz artist).
The problem of not liking so much of this modern 'black music', despite it having its origins in '60s and '70s R&B, soul and funk (which of course has its origins in the blues, jazz, etc.) is simple-ish. As the liner notes to the Brand New Heavies best of put it, in the early '80s, America forgot how to funk. Something happened which has lead to this plethora of other stuff that we've had in the last twenty years which is just pure crap. It might not be totally inaccurate to call Michael Jackson's 'Off The Wall' the last black American TRUE funk album. There was a very interesting documentary on BBC2 here in Britain a couple of months ago, a history of black popular music. The last episode outlined this (it wasn't without its faults, but it was good). Basically, now we have these 'artists' who are influenced by good music, but don't make it themselves. Hence why most 'true' funk in the late '80s - early '90s came not from the States, but from the UK's acid jazz scene - bands like the Heavies and Jami, who were influenced by this.
Today we have a world where modern R&B and rap (I hesitate to call it hip-hop - to my mind there's a subtle distinction) are the biggest selling musical genres. But it's watered down and processed for the most part, and it's only on very rare ocassions when an act like, for instance, OutKast, come along who can give us something new in this line of music. Not because there's something intrinsically wrong with it, but because there's been very little variety in POPULAR 'black' music from the moment Whitney Houston started trying to appeal to white audiences, and MJ decided he wanted to actually BE white.
Finally, I also can't stand Green Day, Maroon 5, Coldplay, or any number of other white 'pop-rock' (or, in Coldplay's case, 'emo-rock') bands around at the moment, but it doesn't mean I can't find some merit in Radiohead, The Hives (stupid but entertaining) or even, at a pinch, Robbie Williams (even stupider, but entertaining, although I've not bought any of his stuff for about 5 years)...
Sam |
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jay88
Joined: 22 Apr 2005
Posts: 281
Location: Sydney, Australia
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| Posted: Thu Jul 14, 2005 09:15 |
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Some of the early 90s stuff was pretty cool... it still had the funk and jazz influences of earlier times... but to me, Eminem and 50 Cent and all those other oxygen thieves are just the epitome of crap. |
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Jaminneapolis
Joined: 22 Feb 2004
Posts: 822
Location: Minneapolis, MN U.S.A.
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| Posted: Mon Jul 18, 2005 18:46 |
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Pietro,
We've gotten into this before, and if you wanna hate rap & hip hop, go ahead, but I think you kinda missed the point of Yvie's question to you that should have clarified something. The rap you hear on pop, top 40 radio does not represent the genre as a whole.
I've used this example in a different post, and evnthough it's kinda stupid, but it's seriously oh so true. RAP IS NO DIFFERENT THAN PROFESSIONAL WRESTLING. Here's why: The most talented professional wrestlers aren't the ones that are the best wrestlers, BUT THEY HAVE THE MOST CHARISMA. THEY'RE THE MOST MARKETABLE. It's the same with rap, it's who's the most marketable, not who's the most skilled.
50 Cent is really in my book an average lyricist. The dude has ok rhymes but they don't blow me away. But comebine his life story with his ripped bod, and some bangin beats, and you got platinum writeen all over the guy. People like him for his image more than his talent... KINDA SOUNDS LIKE BRITNEY SPEARS A LITTLE HUH?
I'll continue this in the next post....
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Jaminneapolis
Joined: 22 Feb 2004
Posts: 822
Location: Minneapolis, MN U.S.A.
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| Posted: Mon Jul 18, 2005 18:55 |
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There was a funny skit on Eminem's 2nd album with this guy named Steve Berman (He's like a top guy at Interscope or a big producer or something). Steve Berman calls Eminem in his office and starts yellin at him for not maikng any good songs, and the stuff he raps about sucks. Then Berman goes onto say:
"You know why Dr. Dre's album was so successful? He's rappin about big screen TV's, 40's, blunts and bitches! You're rappin about homosexuals and ficoden! I Can't sell this shit...!"
Sorry if that offended anyone but those are the exact words in the skit. Eventhough it was a joking skit it tells the truth about what a "successful" hip hop artist comes out with these days. They rap about bitches, escalades, 20" rims, gettin high, and whoopin up on people. IT'S SO F'N CLICHE'D!!!!! Every dude raps about the same thing and if he's got 6 pack abs it will put him over the top. THERE IS SOME GOOD CONTENT FROM THOSE GUYS, BUT THEY DON'T REPRESENT THE GENRE AS A WHOLE, AND IT'S DEFINATELELY NOT WHERE THE MAJORITY OF THE TALENT IS.
Pietro, If you're willing, let me give you some guys that you should try sampling that don't always come out with all the cliche'd garbage that you hate and I think is making the genre stale. I'll give some suggestions in the next post...
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Jaminneapolis
Joined: 22 Feb 2004
Posts: 822
Location: Minneapolis, MN U.S.A.
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| Posted: Mon Jul 18, 2005 19:07 |
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If you stomach tryin to sample these guys, they represent the genre a lot better than 50 cent in my opinion.
I'll break this down in 3 parts:
1) Good stuff from guys you've never heard of
Common: "Be"
Kanye West: "The College Dropout"
Anything from the Roots or Jurassic 5
2) Good stuff from the Cliche'd guys
Anything from Ludacris, Eminem, Outkast or Fabolous
3) The Classic Albums:
Notorious B.I.G.: "Ready to Die"
Snoop Dogg: "Doggystyle" (considered by a lot to be the best rap album ever made)- I know you hate the guy, but it's because he hasn't come close to matching this masterpiece ever since.
Beastie Boys: "Licensed to Ill" and "Paul's Boutique". Eventhough "L.T.I." gets more credit and fanfare, "P.B." is the better album, but they're both good.
Busta Rhymes: "When Disaster Strikes" This guy is very hit or miss with his music, but this album was a classic. It doesn't get that much credit for because it wasn't life changing or brought on a new era or style, IT'S JUST AN F'N GOOD ALBUM!
Guys,
Im probably omitting a ton of obvious artists and albums on here, so feel free to give Pietro more suggestions. If you still choose to hate that kind of music, fine, but Im trying to point you towards the best the genre has to offer, and what you hear on top 40 and pop radio does not provide you with that. Peace!
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VirtuallyInsane
Joined: 10 Jun 2002
Posts: 868
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| Posted: Mon Jul 18, 2005 20:12 |
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 Wondered how long it'd before you posted here Pete!! 
I don't have problems with you guys & gals who don't like this genre of music but I think there is a BIG misconception generally.
Hip-hop encompasses a heck of a lot more than r&b & rap. Pete mentioned the Beastie Boys: not all people would initially class them as hip hop. We all know that those who make it big in life aren't necessarily the most talented or gifted. There are so many people out there in all walks of life who have genuine talent but that doesn't mean they will be the next big thing. |
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VirtuallyInsane
Joined: 10 Jun 2002
Posts: 868
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| Posted: Mon Jul 18, 2005 20:21 |
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| Jaminneapolis wrote: |
There was a funny skit on Eminem's 2nd album with this guy named Steve Berman (He's like a top guy at Interscope or a big producer or something). Steve Berman calls Eminem in his office and starts yellin at him for not maikng any good songs, and the stuff he raps about sucks. Then Berman goes onto say:
"You know why Dr. Dre's album was so successful? He's rappin about big screen TV's, 40's, blunts and bitches! You're rappin about homosexuals and ficoden! I Can't sell this shit...!"
Sorry if that offended anyone but those are the exact words in the skit. Eventhough it was a joking skit it tells the truth about what a "successful" hip hop artist comes out with these days. They rap about bitches, escalades, 20" rims, gettin high, and whoopin up on people. IT'S SO F'N CLICHE'D!!!!! Every dude raps about the same thing and if he's got 6 pack abs it will put him over the top. THERE IS SOME GOOD CONTENT FROM THOSE GUYS, BUT THEY DON'T REPRESENT THE GENRE AS A WHOLE, AND IT'S DEFINATELELY NOT WHERE THE MAJORITY OF THE TALENT IS. |
In the same vein to quote some lyrics from Kanye West...
They say you can rap about anything except for Jesus
That means guns, sex, lies, video tapes
But if I talk about God my record won't get played |
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mandy
Guest
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| Posted: Mon Jul 18, 2005 21:13 |
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yeah Pete and Yvie 
people have been trying to sample for a while now, is not limited to hip hop artists*
*see beethoven
http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Birdsong
does anyone get mad at these guys? no, they are geniuses... and their work shows that art is a collective process. |
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funkynic
Joined: 13 Feb 2005
Posts: 398
Location: Buenos Aires Funkcity!
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| Posted: Mon Jul 18, 2005 21:42 |
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I really don´t know what to think abut this kind of music... I mean when it first begun it was made by people who really felt this kind of music Nowadays it´s full of wannabes, and the ones who made this genre world famous are mixing with them making songs together and stuff like that so the whole contour is turning crappy. At least that´s what I see....
D´angelo is my favorite far far away, the guy has a great voice is a very good musician and composer, but has dissapeared from the scene who knows why, hope he returns soon to keep on keepin´ it real!
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Jaminneapolis
Joined: 22 Feb 2004
Posts: 822
Location: Minneapolis, MN U.S.A.
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| Posted: Tue Jul 19, 2005 01:03 |
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D'angelo is another, but he's not rap. D'angelo is soul/r&b. He's hit or miss with me, but he's come out with some good stuff. Im not quite sure what happened to him either, but I thought maybe I haerd somethin about a dispute with a record company over his record deal might have buried him. I might be way off though... Mandy would be the one to ask on this
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funkynic
Joined: 13 Feb 2005
Posts: 398
Location: Buenos Aires Funkcity!
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| Posted: Tue Jul 19, 2005 02:24 |
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| Jaminneapolis wrote: |
| D'angelo is another, but he's not rap. D'angelo is soul/r&b. He's hit or miss with me, but he's come out with some good stuff. Im not quite sure what happened to him either, but I thought maybe I haerd somethin about a dispute with a record company over his record deal might have buried him. I might be way off though... Mandy would be the one to ask on this |
What a shame if that happened.. this guy has so much talent to spread
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waterlily
Joined: 17 Jul 2005
Posts: 8
Location: France
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| Posted: Tue Jul 19, 2005 10:55 |
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I guess it depends on what you call Rap, RnB, Soul... Old school Rap, RnB and Soul musics were fantastic, maybe up until Gangsta Rap appeared (let's say early or mid-90s). All the people and bands who made African-American music so great back in the 60s, 70s and 80s, that was simply GREAT. 
Now if we're talking about today's Rap and RnB productions, I'd say YUCK for most of it, even if there are some exceptions (Outkast is alright, for example) but they are rare.
I used to enjoy early Destiny's Child, now I'm sick of them and particularly of Béyoncé. Seems like you can't escape her.
As for the rest, it all sounds the same. When I turn on a music channel on TV and they start showing 50 cents, Ciara, Brandy, etc... I have to switch channel. There is a RnB overdose right now.
But talking about the quality of music, I have to say that all genres go through a serious crisis. Pop/rock music is no better, dance music is atrocious... Everything that is "mainstream" is simply no good, no matter what genre. Must be why I've gotten more and more into what we call "world music" lately, or just return to older stuff.  |
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VirtuallyInsane
Joined: 10 Jun 2002
Posts: 868
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| Posted: Tue Jul 19, 2005 19:12 |
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| Samiroquai wrote: |
| I really don't understand how anyone can even dance to it in clubs - it's all too slow |
I don't agree with this myself. OK, I'm not claiming to be a good dancer by ANY stretch of the imagination but to me dancing is all about listening to the music & finding your grove. I always feel disappointed when I see people dancing & they can only dance at one speed the whole night. Sometimes you gotta look beneath the surface & yeah ok you can pick up the dominant beat & dance to that or you can mix it up & grove to the other rhythms in a song... |
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mandy
Guest
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| Posted: Wed Jul 20, 2005 13:04 |
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alright, so what about Gorillaz? Yet another good thing out of Atlanta (think DJ Danger Mouse). They want didnt to sell records based on their physical so they collaborated with the local Cartoon Network to make an image.
http://www.gorillaz.com/flash.html
this is hip hop
(btw Feel Good Inc is a fun fun song, and the video only enhances it) |
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Jaminneapolis
Joined: 22 Feb 2004
Posts: 822
Location: Minneapolis, MN U.S.A.
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| Posted: Wed Jul 20, 2005 18:48 |
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Very true... But the whole "Demon Days" album isn't rap. But "Feel Good Inc." is a good song. Don't forget about "Clint Eastwood" from their last one also.
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