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Dye
Correspondent & Expert
Joined: 16 Nov 2003
Posts: 5146
Location: Planet Home; Buenos Aires, Argentina
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 Posted: Fri Feb 10, 2006 16:52 |
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Over Produced
Hello Jamirotalkers
I was thinking, aren't the last albums very over-produced? I don't mean this is a bad thing necessarily, cause I do like most of it, but wouldn't be great if only the bandmembers play in the recording studio, and that's it? Perhaps adding a string/horn section, and that's it?
I would really like to hear what kind of new songs would they play, Jay, Sola, Matt, Derrick, Rob and Paul. The 6 of them, only. And trying new stuff.
And, besides, the album wouldn't take that long to be released.
Is that a good idea?
D! (dyego) |
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dannyev
Joined: 25 Mar 2002
Posts: 429
Location: Planet Home
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| Posted: Fri Feb 10, 2006 17:19 |
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Defo over produced!
Yeah I certainly agree that the last two albums have been over produced but I also think that it maybe shows how much effort the guys put into making the songs sound the best they can.
That's why it annoys me that Jamiroquai don't really get the credit they deserve. They are are a terrific band and put so much effort into their music (in studio and on stage) and yet most of the drivel that does better in the charts is just repetitive beats with no real musical progression or quality!
But like you say Diego, the albums are still great despite their over-production especially Dynamite!!
But it would be interesting just to hear the band playing in the studio and we MUST be treated to a string/horn section sooner rather then later.
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Gonza-Arg
Joined: 27 Mar 2005
Posts: 1680
Location: Argentina
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| Posted: Fri Feb 10, 2006 17:23 |
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You are right Diego, that's what they have to do. Like a "Live in a studio" album. |
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LLCoolJR
Officer & Expert
Joined: 23 Aug 2004
Posts: 1431
Location: The Netherlands
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| Posted: Fri Feb 10, 2006 17:27 |
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Yes it's true. Matt told me that for example the first recording of Time Won't Wait was way better than the album version we know  |
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jgrizz
Joined: 12 Jan 2005
Posts: 1049
Location: Claremont/Southern California/USA
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| Posted: Fri Feb 10, 2006 19:05 |
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 Well that's the trick isn't it, not to get over produced and sell-out, after making it "Big".
I think that it would great to hear JMQ record the "old" way or better yet having the original members back again, but as we all know that's probably never gonna happen 
It is very rare for an artist to duplicate an "earlier" sound, such as recording style or even musical style, as producers and other people get thier hands in it, and the artists don;t spend as much time, with it, and they don't have the immediacy and drive that they once had when they were first starting out, that hungry feeling ............
over producing really takes the "soul" out tof the music dosen't it?
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Catalonia is not Spain
Joined: 12 Jun 2005
Posts: 566
Location: Edinburgh
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| Posted: Fri Feb 10, 2006 20:41 |
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Like Dannyev said, last two albums have been over produced and it shows (or that's my opinion) how much effort they put into making the songs sound the best they can.
Probably it would be interesting to listen our favourite band in a more intimate and new way, but I really think over produce is a consequence of their desire to create new stuff as carefully as fans deserve. And that's something really appreciated!! |
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mrsmoon
Joined: 04 May 2002
Posts: 485
Location: Cologne/Germany
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| Posted: Fri Feb 10, 2006 22:26 |
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hmmm...do you really think the albums are "over produced" 
i can´t see that... and do you know why...i have seen them live!!!
and the new songs sounded great... just like on the album
not complete different!
i hear jay sayin in an interview( something like that) : "we have to do songs which we can play live on stage... we could create tons of songs with effects..but we don´t do ´cause we are a live band"
and i think this is still jamiroquai´s offcial way....
so i don´t think dynamite is over produced...
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mojogonlopoto
JamilyTree Expert
Joined: 15 Sep 2005
Posts: 1398
Location: Madrid, Spain
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| Posted: Fri Feb 10, 2006 22:46 |
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I like the latest lp´s more than the firsts. So, I prefer the new "electronic" sound. I´ve heard them live and the sound is exactly the same that the last album, I think that they have made a very good job
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Gonza-Arg
Joined: 27 Mar 2005
Posts: 1680
Location: Argentina
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| Posted: Fri Feb 10, 2006 23:29 |
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It's not a bad job, It's just thay they don't need to use Pro Tools to make good album, I prefer "less electronic sound", for example the album version of space cowboy is very nice and sounds like a live tune. |
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FraGiLe
Joined: 15 Jun 2003
Posts: 21
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| Posted: Sat Feb 11, 2006 12:10 |
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Afaik they recorded it together - dr/bass/keys/git/voc ... then it was put into pro tools and mixed and produced... thats at least what the digidesign website and jay in an interview says... |
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Dye
Correspondent & Expert
Joined: 16 Nov 2003
Posts: 5146
Location: Planet Home; Buenos Aires, Argentina
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| Posted: Sat Feb 11, 2006 16:51 |
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Hi there,
Yes, there's something true in all this. I agree on the fact that they do a FANTASTIC job at 'remaking' the songs to play them live, and still sound fresh like they are in the album. I think that's a great achievement, that not all bands can.
By over-produced, I meant that maybe they should keep songs more simple, like Gonza said, 'Space Cowboy' is the favorite of all of us, I think, and guess what? Is like the most simple song of the band. Maybe that's the secret.
D! (dyego) |
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Catalonia is not Spain
Joined: 12 Jun 2005
Posts: 566
Location: Edinburgh
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| Posted: Sat Feb 11, 2006 19:26 |
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Either in art and in decoration, over produced is known as a decadent sign..but who knows... 
I don't know if the secret is the simplicity...probably simplicity makes songs more comercial, but we use to say that we don't like comercial stuff (it's not a sin, want to see your favourite band at the top of the charts! and it's not antagonistic with quality!).
However, I agree that this album has been over produced. It's a sign of work and wish to improve, but that's also extreme. Now i'm thinking in DGHAC. Great song but probably too..baroque. Or FJLIS..
Less is more |
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Samiroquai
Joined: 13 Jul 2005
Posts: 1020
Location: North Somerset and Manchester, both in England
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| Posted: Sat Feb 11, 2006 21:53 |
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Not sure if the latest one's OVERproduced to quite the same extent that AFO undeniably was... but I think what can really ruin an album is BAD production, for examples of which see Synkronized (actually the production on the first two albums is pretty shit as well, but as it's not as integral to the sound it's hardly really noticeable other than on Just Another Story), or any Brand New Heavies stuff that was recorded on Acid Jazz.
It would be a lot better to hear the band really loose and laying down some proper jams, but then they appear to agree, and it's exactly what Jay's been ranting about in the press about Sony trying to push him around since the release of Dynamite. So just be patient. They may never get back to it, but you've already got the albums you love, and that's better than nothing...
Sam |
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robotscantadlib
Joined: 28 May 2005
Posts: 242
Location: san francisco
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| Posted: Sun Feb 12, 2006 03:04 |
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Yeah, I have always maintained that Dynamite is over-produced. I can accept the cleanliness of say, Synkronized, but Dynamite is a soulless Pro-Tools monstrousity. It sounds way too clean all the time, and there's way too much trying to happen at once..it's good for the instrument sounds to 'blend' together sort of and overlap, that's what creates the warmth of the earlier recordings. Taking each part into Pro-Tools definitely makes everything have this super-clean thing...kills the vibe. A lot of the crispness in the drum-sounds and stuff also make the songs sound cheesy in a way. Disco doesn't blend with hi-fi, in my opinion. It just becomes 'house' music in a way. But the thing is, with that approach, you can hear lots of little details that are slightly more difficult to pick out using the old 'live in studio' approach. I also think part of the Pro-Tooling is due to Jay's failing voice. They definitely did some retouching and vocal layering on Dynamite to make him sound better than he is nowadays.
Time Won't Wait is one of the best examples of over-production on the new album..the strings sound like shit, even though they're real strings. I read somewhere that they re-arranged them in Pro-Tools..could explain it. Nix the strings for the most part and bring back the horn section that partially defines the Jamiroquai sound. Don't Give Hate A Chance is disgusting, with all that clean piano sound and the sound effect leading into the chorus..I shudder every time I hear that. But I do like the 'woo!' they put in the background, haha. |
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funkynic
Joined: 13 Feb 2005
Posts: 398
Location: Buenos Aires Funkcity!
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| Posted: Sun Feb 12, 2006 23:44 |
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Sorry guys but I find this post nonsense....
Everybody is talking about the last albums being overproduced... can anyone give a good example in which you can see the last albums are overproduced and the first ones are not¿? Because actually the newer the album is the better it sounds (AFO is not we know that i think) and songs are getting shorter (sonys fuc**ng marketing strategy), so I dont know what the meaning of over produced is.
Some said the sound is too clean now... some say totally the oposite, now...who said pro tools is used to create electronic sound¿? How many songs from dynamite dont sound like a live song¿? EOPE is a great, great album and even though its recorded live it sounds as if it was recorded on a tape recorder. TWM was recorded live but the sound is not that great if you think for a seccond how great the soings inside of ir are. AFO was not recorded live, does not sound live and the sound quality is aceptable, period. SYNK and DYN were recorded live and are the records that sound "more live", despite the structure of the songs.
Space cowboy is one simple song compared to what jamiroquai does, but musically talking its not a simple song, a simple songs from jamiroquai is supersonic that IS simple.
And by the way if someone wants to listen to simple dull music... what is this person doing listening to jamiroquai??
Many more things come to my mind now but Ill leave it here for now, the idea is to express my opinion not to analyse every single aspect of jam´s songs and the way they sound through the years.
Nic
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